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frjamie@talktalk.net  
#61 Posted : 18 October 2009 21:13:17(UTC)
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R. Stephenson-Smythe wrote:

 Good Evening,
Hope you have all had a good weekend. 

I have had a look at the information  regarding the Mill at Rowarth,  and it appears that their was a great flood around 1930, when much damage was done.

The information  says that the Wheel was lost,  such a big thing to vanish !!!!!!

Anyway the wheel that is their at the moment  is a replacement,  and if you look much closer I am sure you can not see its great Crown Wheel at the side,  and it also looks like it is -undershot.

I have also had  3 pictures re printed of Whaley Bridge dated late 1800's showing  the village as it was, perhaps RSS you can contact me to help me.

Many thanks

 

 

Hello Bob,
 
Talking of wheels, and I’m no expert on wheels here is an old photo of the Little Mill at Rowarth.
 
Now I’ve not been up there for many years but I always thought the one there was an ‘overshot wheel’.
That is the water cascaded from above on to the wheel to turn it as opposed to an ‘undershot wheel’ where the water turned the wheel from underneath. On this photo it appears to be an ‘undershot’.
 
I really can’t remember the wheel at the Little Mill but I presume it is still there. Have you by chance been up there recently and is it still there and in working order?
 
I would be interested to know and if anybody has chance to take a photo that would be very welcome.
 
Bye till later on.
 
R. S-S

 

WB0376A Little Mill Rowarth by you.

snoopy  
#62 Posted : 18 October 2009 22:53:39(UTC)
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i am no expert on water wheels. Never heard of under or over shot.

But at the Little Mill Inn I am sure the water has always been below the wheel, which I presume is undershot.

R. Stephenson-Smythe  
#63 Posted : 17 August 2010 13:08:02(UTC)
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Just reviving this older topic briefly.
 
I have put the history of the Mill together and sent it to Well Known Norm and hopefully he will be able to put it on to the new website that he has kindly created for us.
 
I’m sure Norm will be able to act with his usual electric pace and doing it this way no outside influence or idiot can interfere with any of the material.
 
I’m sure Norm will come on here and let us know when the site has been updated.
 
R. S-S
(Thug and boring one at that).
 
See Buggyite I can do it as well.
Norm  
#64 Posted : 20 August 2010 18:35:55(UTC)
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Hello

The Corn Mill is now on the Local History Site, a couple of slightly interesting comparison photos to be seen on it.

I think the website is building up to something quite good, let's hope it continues.

Norm

buggyite  
#65 Posted : 13 January 2011 13:11:13(UTC)
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Its a while since anyone posted on here, but as R.S-S. has got me wondering where the canal feeder from Todd Brook runs (but on another thread), I thought I'd put the question here, and get the topic restarted..

Basically, I always thought the water that runs in a channel at the side of the Railway Hotel was the feeder to the canal. However, Mr Stephenson-Smythe informs me that this is in fact the leet for the corn mill water wheel. So, is the canal feeder completely underground all the way to where it meets the canal at the Transhipment Warehouse?

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tyke  
#66 Posted : 13 January 2011 14:26:21(UTC)
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Once saw BW men lifting a manhole on the corner under the railway bridge (Resr Road) so I think it runs underground on the other side of the road. Therefore the Manhole there might be an access point for the feeder.

R. Stephenson-Smythe  
#67 Posted : 15 January 2011 11:58:34(UTC)
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Good morning, Buggyite,
 
The Toddbrook Goat cut to supply the canal was presumably done at about the same time as the reservoir itself was constructed. Well they weren’t daft enough to build a reservoir to feed the canal and forget to construct a feeder. It might happen nowadays but not back then.
The reservoir was built (according to the internet) in 1831 so we can assume that the goat was as well.
 
The route taken would have been the easiest and most direct, obviously. And there wasn’t as much red tape and Health and Safety in those days either.
So if we assume that they did take the most direct route and the fact that there were not so many obstructions in the 1830’s you could almost strike a line to determine the route. There is no place at all that you would expect it to be open and on view.
Don’t forget the railway wasn’t in Whaley then so that would not be an obstruction and I don’t know what dates are on the houses on Canal Street so maybe they weren’t in the way either.
In 1851 Whaley had 161 houses and 693 inhabitants, 361 males and 332 females. The rateable value of the village was £2,740. At that time there were three horse-drawn coaches calling at the Jodrell each day on the Manchester-Buxton route, and it was not until 1857 that the Stockport, Disley and Whaley Bridge Railway was opened.
So it was a pretty quiet sort of place; not quite Deadman’s Gulch but quiet just the same.
 
One bit of information that I am certain of is that the little take-away on the Station Approach, Chillis I think it is called, was once Eyre’s coal hut and when Drinkwater’s was also a building firm they built an extension on to it.
I know it’s hard to believe but small as it is it did have an extension.
During the course of these works the workmen uncovered some stone slabs and they could hear water rushing underneath. They put it down to being the Toddbrook Goat and like all good builders covered it up and said nothing.
 
By the way Buggyite I have found a link that will really interest you on this subject.
 
“Toddbrook-goats.com”
 
Have a look.
 
R. S-S
buggyite  
#68 Posted : 15 January 2011 15:24:16(UTC)
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Flipping heck, R. S-S,

You're not Kidding about that website!

As you say, today's Nanny state wouldn't have allowed the goat to be built there these days, and I was clearly a silly Billy to have assumed the Toddbrook Goat would have been an open channel like the Combs Goat is.

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gritch  
#69 Posted : 11 August 2011 13:50:05(UTC)
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Whilst whiling away my lunch hour.......I found the attached.

G.

File Attachment(s):
Manchester Guardian Adverts.pdf (190kb) downloaded 86 time(s).
R. Stephenson-Smythe  
#70 Posted : 21 January 2013 09:43:24(UTC)
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Within this thread we have discussed the Corn Mill on Bridge Street and how it was powered by an undershot water wheel using water taken from the Goyt River and the put back into the same river but lower down: a magnificent piece of engineering and ingenuity by the Victorians.
The deed of easement for taking the water through the path it took and could still take was signed on the 1st June, 1780. Over a hundred years later Councillor Williamson said that Whaley Bridge Council were foolish not to take up those water rights; he may have been correct I really don’t know.
After the demise of the Corn Mill (aka Whaley Mill) the building lay in ruins apart from a public house there called the Old Tankard. Eventually the roof collapsed and the whole of the buildings had to be demolished and the houses that are now there were built in about 1913.
But in between the Whaley Mill must have become a Wire Mill.


WIRE WORKS


D.R.O.  D2825Z/5/1  Wire Mill, Whaley Bridge.

Conveyance by Revd Peter Legh of Lyme, Cheshire, cleric and James Hilton, Lord of Bodlondel, Caernarvons, esq., trustees under the will of Thomas Peter Legh of Lyme, esquire to Edmund Buckley of Manchester Esq., trustees conveying the Wire Mill, houses and garden in Whaley, parish of Taxal, Cheshire (Whaley now in Derbyshire), previously occupied by Ramsden, Camm & Co., and now occupied by Messrs Barnes and Braddock, and Thomas Legh conveying remainder of term of lease for 500 years of 1 June 1780, Robert Bennett of Mosley, Lancs, baker, leasing to Peter Legh of Lyme, esquire for £2 2s yearly, right to use watercourse through Bennett’s Close, Goose High Warth, and dam across River Goyt between Goose High Warth and Saunders Croft also belonging to Bennett, to supply mill.    Consideration £1550.    George Carr Glyn Boyce Combe and Robert Saunders esquire, trustees of Globe Insurance Office, Cornhill, London, only holders of charges on Legh’s estate, promise not to make any claim on the property in respect of a mortgage to them by Thomas Legh of his estate in the sum of £46,122 12s 6d.    5 September 1853.

 

1841 CENSUS Y c W

Henry Byrne   wire manufacturer  35 N
John Ollerhead   wire drawer   40 N
John Etchells   wire drawer   45 Y
Robert Littlewood  iron wire drawer   50 N
William Littlewood  iron wire drawer   25 N
Joseph Edwards   wire drawer   40 N
John Littlewood   iron moulder   20 N
Joseph Hart        wire drawer     30    N

 

1845 TITHE COMMUTATION ROLL

Owner:  Thomas Legh Esq., Occupier:  Henry Bums
Wire Mill, yard and garden.   No 360.
(The Old Corn Mill, Bridge Street.)

It looks like the occupier of the Wire Mill in 1845 had an unfortunate surname unless his writing let him down on the census form and he was actually called Henry Burns. But who knows?

R. S-S.

 


 

RockBanker  
#71 Posted : 21 January 2013 12:05:24(UTC)
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I would guess he was the same Henry Byrne in the 1841 census . Byrne->Burn
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JonG  
#72 Posted : 21 January 2013 14:49:08(UTC)
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Hi,

Any idea where Saunders Croft , Bennets Close or Goose High Warth are , or have they been swalowed up by development and lost? Had a quick look for references but couldn't see anything. 

Apparently a 'Warth' is a river bank or flat meadow besides a river.

Cheers

Jon.

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R. Stephenson-Smythe  
#73 Posted : 21 January 2013 15:29:28(UTC)
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Jon,

 

The parcels of land referred to occur within the conveyance of several small parcels of land stretching from the old weir in the park down towards Bridge Street. It is not very far if you walk it; in fact I think I once offered to take you and other Councillors on a guided tour.

 

The actual course of the Whaley Mill ‘goat’ goes from within the Memorial Park, although it was not a park at the time, behind the old Youth Club , behind Plant’s showrooms on Wharf Road, under the new bridge of 1863 created by the Railway Buxton extension, out into the open at the side of the Railway Hotel, under the A6, under one of the takeaway’s and out into the open once again at the back of Bridge Street to drive the undershot water wheel and finally cascading back into the river. So much power was produced and no water was lost. (In later years a gent’s public urinal was constructed over the ‘goat’ at the side of the Railway Hotel so the river may have gained stock rather than lost it).

 

The grant of easement of 1st June, 1780 was from Mr. Robert Bennett to Peter Legh Esq (obviously from Lyme Hall).


It was to Grant of the Use and Enjoyment of a Watercourse and Dam in the Lands of him the said Robert Bennett for the Use of Whaley Mill.

 

Peter Legh his Executors Administrators and Assigns should from thenceforth well and truly pay or cause to be paid unto the said Robert Bennett his Heirs or Assigns the Annual Rent or Yearly Sum of Two Pounds and Two Shillings during the Term of Five Hundred Years.

 

So the bits of land are still there and for all I know may still be referred to as they were in 1780 by the owners/occupiers of those pieces of land.

 

R. S-S

 

If you want the full conveyance I can post it on here, send it or email it to you. The names you refer to crop up many times and you may be able to pinpoint their exact locations better than me.

 

 

Capital-of-the-Peak  
#74 Posted : 21 January 2013 17:19:55(UTC)
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The best map I have found to view features in this post are here from 1879

http://www.old-maps.co.u...100093_401160_381236.png

It shows the old bridge on Bridge Street, the Mill, the weir and "goat" in front of the reservoir, a Goyt Inn, no foot of Whaley Lane.

Other interesting features - note the position of the Mechanics Institute, and many Old Pits.

As mentioned in another thread, I presume that the County Boundary follows the old river line, and that the river was divertted to provide weirs for the corn mill and Goyt Mill
Capital-of-the-Peak  
#75 Posted : 21 January 2013 17:21:18(UTC)
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sorry, the map link came out incorrectly - it should be

www.old-maps.co.uk/maptiles/m100093_401160_381236.png

Edited by user 21 January 2013 17:22:20(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

R. Stephenson-Smythe  
#76 Posted : 21 January 2013 18:43:16(UTC)
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Hey Cap of the P,

That is a very fine map and one I have not seen before.

Yes it shows the Mechanics Institute in its original position (only in Whaley) on the Station Approach. That is correct; that is where the Mechanics started in Whaley.

It also shows the toll gate on Market Street (see below).

But the 'goat' we are talking about on here does not come from Toddbrook.

Excellent stuff; it needs looking at in more detail: Liverpool House ?

 

 

 

Glossopdale Chronicle & North Derbyshire Reporter

4 January 1873

removal of the toll gates

The old toll gates have been removed from their position near the post office.

 

R. S-S

shallcross  
#77 Posted : 21 January 2013 21:47:31(UTC)
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Jon, RSS

I have always understood the Warth to be the area now occupied by Wharf Road, Jon you are correct that the definition is a Meadow next to a River many Towns have or had an area called The Warth Chinley has a Warth that is  still refered to as such The Warth was also usualy a Water meadow or flood plain and Wharf Road has been subject to infrequent flooding, the last major one was in the 1930s when the water came nearly up to Beards Joiners shop, the area refered to is certainly the Taxal or Cheshire side of the Goyt, RSS has a photo of an ''aeroplane'' on the Warth which gives you a clear veiw of the meadow around it (this is actualy not a real Aircraft but was constructed by Mr Plant & Mr Morten for Carnival),

The Toll gates refered to were in fact the second set of gates the original one being on the old toll road the Cheshire side of the river crossing on Bridge Street, this is the wonderful thing about history it evolves the first Post office in Whaley was at the Jodrell Arms in 1845 the Post Master was Richard Robinson, then moved to Market Street around 1860 to John Nalls Stationers later taken over in 1878 by Robert Jackson as Post Master Stationer and Bookseller this will be the one referd to re the Toll Gates, it then moved across the road to Wharf Road where the Post Master was Mrs Elizabeth Scholes and then of course to Market Street and then its present position on Canal Street Mr Oakes was listed as Postmaster in 1970 until the move to Canal Street in 1984.

 

Photo Whaley Bridge Post Office Wharf Road Mrs Elizabeth Scholes Postmaster in doorway c1906

shallcross attached the following image(s):
Picture1.jpg
Shallcross
Capital-of-the-Peak  
#78 Posted : 22 January 2013 11:43:36(UTC)
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I was intrigued by the first photo in this thread - at first glance it seemed to show a strange locomotive on the railway right of the bridge. I had to download and enlarge to see that what appeared to be a boiler and funnel were in fact a roofline and chimney- stack!

Since canal feeders are mentioned in this thread, I have seen a plan at Matlock for a second "goat" from Combs to Chapel Milton to feed the never built extension to the canal - does anyone know more about it? It was at a shallower gradient than the other and skirted Eccles Pike at a higher altitude through Bings and Bugsworth.
buggyite  
#79 Posted : 24 January 2013 09:42:43(UTC)
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I didn't know about the map or plan to feed an extended "Bugsworth arm" from Combs.

I have always understood that when initially surveyed, the proposal was for the canal to run as far as Chapel Milton , or even the bottom of the plane at Town End in Chapel, but this was quickly dropped in favour of using the tramway to fill this section in.

Careful use of OS maps to determine relative heights shows that at least a couple of locks would be needed between Buxworth and Chapel Milton as it looks like the canal at Bugsworth Basin is about 550 ft above sea level, whereas Blackbrook at Chapel Milton is about 685 ft. This would fit in nicely with the fact that Peak Forest Tramway wagons were able to run by gravity towards Bugsworth.

Now on to the proposed extra canal feeder...

The base of Combs dam appears to be about 690ft above sea level, which would mean a fall of 5 ft between there and Chapel Milton, which is insufficient fall even for a direct straight line tunnel under Eccles, so I cannot see how a much long feeder skirting Bings would have been possible!

 

Edited by user 24 January 2013 09:44:42(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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RockBanker  
#80 Posted : 24 January 2013 11:47:07(UTC)
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Derbyshire Record Office
Online Catalogue
 













 
 
 


Records of Quarter Sessions
 
 


Deposited Plans
 
 


Derbyshire Deposited Plans of Public Undertakings relating to turnpike roads, canals and public works
SubSeries
1807-1864






 

 





   Ref No Q/RP/1/67


 

 Title : Peak Forest Canal extension from Chapel Milton to Bugsworth, with feeder from Combs Reservoir





 

Date 1810









Edited by user 24 January 2013 12:02:43(UTC)  | Reason: Tidy

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