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R. Stephenson-Smythe  
#81 Posted : 26 January 2010 14:50:27(UTC)
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I’ve just been looking back over a few old topics and came upon a bit of information about Toddbrook Reservoir.
I thought I might as well continue on this thread rather than start a new one because there might not be much more to add.
 
When you look on the internet every report apart from one, which I can find at any rate, says that Toddbrook Reservoir was built in 1831. I don’t think that is entirely correct. It may have been started in 1831 but it was probably completed a few years later.
 
In fact at one time there were plans for 2 reservoirs (Toddbrook 1 and Toddbrook 2). Well maybe.
 
Yes we very nearly had 2 reservoirs. Or was it one reservoir in a different position?
 
Just to explain once again for those at the back Combs Reservoir and Toddbrook Reservoir are not for drinking water they are there to keep the Canal topped up.
 
Right now we all understand that here is a clip from the Select Committee 3 November 1834:
 
NEW RESERVOIR.
 
“Mr Brown reported respecting the Reservoir on Todds Brook.
The first site was 33 Acres the latter 31 Acres. The Embankment for the first would contain 115,000 Cube Yards and the upper one 128,000.
The lower Reservoir would contain 4,500 Locks.
The upper Reservoir would contain 4,570 Locks.
 
The situation of either of the Reservoirs is such that he is of opinion that the Drainage would fill either of them 5 times in a Year, and each Lock would cost 11d. But if they could return the 5 times it would cost 6d. or 7d.
 
The higher Reservoir would cost £12,000 and would give 100 Locks per day for 135 days.    The only objection would be that it gives a little upon Mr Brocklehurst land.    He could not at this meeting fully make up his mind but he requests that Mr Meadows will inquire from Mr Coleby or any other person that can give any Information whether there have been any Coal Pits at the lower end of the Reservoir.”
 
 
I can only presume, fairly certainly, that Mr Brocklehurst was from Gap House and never did give permission for the upper Reservoir (Toddbrook 2) which would have encroached on his land.
 
I think it really depends just how you read the article on whether there were plans for 2 reservoirs or 2 sites for 1 reservoir although Toddbrook Reservoir as we know it must have been about completed in 1834 so just what were they talking about?
 
I’m not really sure what to make of the second paragraph so you will have to make your own minds up.
 
As for coal pits at the lower end of the reservoir: the answer is yes there was a pit there at one time. No wonder it leaks.
 
Very interesting how they measured the volume of water in locks though.
 
R. S-S
 
No silly pictures please.
buggyite  
#82 Posted : 26 January 2010 17:33:20(UTC)
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Its also interesting that the maths "doesn't add up" in their usage/volume calculations:

115,000 cubic yards to provide 4500 lock-fulls gives a lock volume of 25.555555 cu yds

128,000 cubic yards to provide 4570 lock-fulls gives a lock volume of 28.00 cu yds.

Perhaps he was trying to lead the committee into choosing his own preferred option (thats if the reservoirs are "either/or" and not "and")

 

Edited by user 26 January 2010 17:35:28(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Buggyite
I am a yellow factioner!
Fedup  
#83 Posted : 26 January 2010 18:55:47(UTC)
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Right - that's it, after reading the last two posts I'm looking for the whisky and the darkened room!

Edited by user 26 January 2010 18:56:24(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Gnatalee  
#84 Posted : 26 January 2010 19:54:59(UTC)
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I may join you Fedup !  Too many "sums" for me ! 


Gnats

Edited by user 26 January 2010 19:57:00(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

frjamie@talktalk.net  
#85 Posted : 26 January 2010 21:10:13(UTC)
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Dear R S S,

And all good people,

Hope yo are all enjoying this weather, and watching the bulbs come up !

R S S I believe you are correct  regarding the 2nd reservoir,                                                         I was told a few years ago  that it was further up the hill.                    

However  I think the best person to ask is David Frith, who as you know was the sluice keeper for Toddbrook.                         

David told me around 6 years ago about the time that the water Vanished !!!!                         he also told me about the possibility that the sluice keepers cottage was much further down the road, and was moved to its present location later on.

I am sure that the reservoir was not completed in 1831,  and have read that it was much later.    Reservoir rd was built in 2 stages as their was no access  as their is today.

The Hall had 2 drives the original one going onto Whaley Lane, and the second drive which was made at a later date onto reservoir rd,  however on one of the maps  I am sure that it shows the houses going across where the bridge is.

I do remember some good pictures being shown of the work altering Whaley lane. on here last year.

In the meantime  enjoy searching  !!!!!!!

Devious  
#86 Posted : 26 January 2010 21:15:03(UTC)
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My grandfather used to tell me that there had been talk of another dam half way along Scar Wood which would have flooded Kishfield. ( What would Hilda think of this ). He also said that there had been stories handed down of a rail line going from Whaley Bridge to Macc. with a tunnel under the hill at Pot Shrigley. Has anyone else heard of this. 

Devious   

R. Stephenson-Smythe  
#87 Posted : 27 January 2010 08:48:35(UTC)
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buggyite wrote:

Its also interesting that the maths "doesn't add up" in their usage/volume calculations:

115,000 cubic yards to provide 4500 lock-fulls gives a lock volume of 25.555555 cu yds

128,000 cubic yards to provide 4570 lock-fulls gives a lock volume of 28.00 cu yds.

Perhaps he was trying to lead the committee into choosing his own preferred option (thats if the reservoirs are "either/or" and not "and")

 

 

 

Hello Buggyite,
 
If you read the Select Committee’s report with a little more care the figures it gives of
115,000 cubic yards and 128,000 cubic yards is the fill for the 2 different embankments, not the volume of water cotained in the reservoirs.
So your fine mathematical abilities, although correct in what you have done, do not work on this occasion.
 
Oh by the way my good friend did you ever find the raised pointing on the gable end of the property in Bugsworth that appears to denote a Youth Hostel?
If you did is the pointing correct in what it is ‘pointing out’? Personally I have not the foggiest.
 
R. S-S
R. Stephenson-Smythe  
#88 Posted : 28 January 2010 14:22:00(UTC)
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frjamie@talktalk.net wrote:

Dear R S S,

And all good people,

Hope yo are all enjoying this weather, and watching the bulbs come up !

R S S I believe you are correct  regarding the 2nd reservoir,                                                         I was told a few years ago  that it was further up the hill.                    

However  I think the best person to ask is David Frith, who as you know was the sluice keeper for Toddbrook.                         

David told me around 6 years ago about the time that the water Vanished !!!!                         he also told me about the possibility that the sluice keepers cottage was much further down the road, and was moved to its present location later on.

I am sure that the reservoir was not completed in 1831,  and have read that it was much later.    Reservoir rd was built in 2 stages as their was no access  as their is today.

The Hall had 2 drives the original one going onto Whaley Lane, and the second drive which was made at a later date onto reservoir rd,  however on one of the maps  I am sure that it shows the houses going across where the bridge is.

I do remember some good pictures being shown of the work altering Whaley lane. on here last year.

In the meantime  enjoy searching  !!!!!!!

 

 

A very good afternoon to you Jamie,
 
This is now a very interesting topic and your comments about your 2 driveways are most interesting.
 
I firstly must apologise for not coming to see you after your very kind invitation. I just don’t know where the time goes. But I promise you, and myself, that I shall make the time very shortly.
 
There were three houses at the bottom of Reservoir Road which needed to be demolished to allow for the extension of Whaley Lane. I may be wrong but I do not think they were where the bridge is now; I have placed a photo below which shows a different view of the road works.
 
That is looking up at what is now the bottom of Whaley Lane. I can’t remember the name of the cottages but I’ll see if I have got any information about them later this week.
But you will see from the photo, the well dressed and well fed gentleman, is standing just above the steps that led to those cottages.
 
Now are you saying that before the bridge was built there was no access from those cottages directly down into Whaley?
 
As I say this is extremely interesting and some research is now necessary.
 
Firstly and importantly can you tell me what date the Hall was built exactly? That can start us off.
 
R. S-S

frjamie@talktalk.net  
#89 Posted : 28 January 2010 21:56:10(UTC)
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Dear R S S,

Good evening, and hope you are well.

I have been doing some research into the Hall for the last 2 -3 years. 

It was over thirty years ago that we were first told of the Hall's history, and in the records says that the Hall goes back to the Tudor Period.

We know that from the Records of the Hall which are now kept in Nottingham University, that the Hall does have an interesting history, and that we can go back further than 1850's when John Nall lived here, and am told he ended up bankrupt.

The Hall has had a lot of alterations over the years, parts added to, and knocked down, one of the interesting parts is its cellers, because their is part which is older than the rest of  the building, and part which we can not get into.

In one  part their is an original stone fire place.

Their are 3 attics  in this part of the house,  I was in them only yesterday,  the stone work in them is again different from the rest of the building,  and infact separate from the outer casing of the building.

I think that the cottages that you are talking about may of had access into the village, but not forgetting that Whaley Lane was changed as you kindly show the alterations here.

The old drive is still their, and this is still in use, some of you may recall Captain Howard using his Horse and Trap going along the drive.

Perhaps I should buy a horse and trap and sell the car !!!!!!

If anyone has got any pictures of the Hall, then please bring them over, or put them on here.

In the meantime R S S, I am still waiting for you to come over for a cup of Tea !!!

 

R. Stephenson-Smythe  
#90 Posted : 01 February 2010 18:25:23(UTC)
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Hello Fr Jamie,
 
Funny that you should mention about the water disappearing from the Reservoir and indeed Harold Lee, foreman for Z & W, spent an awful lot of time investigating the leaks some years ago; as the initial photos on this thread show.
Maybe, just maybe, they should have checked the old canal records first.
I know it could fairly easily be solved nowadays but in 1831 was it such a good idea to build a reservoir over the top of a mine shaft?
 
R. S-S
 
 
 
Manchester, Sheffield and Lincolnshire Railway
Canals Department,
Marple.
 
22 July 1895
 
Dear Sir
 
          OLD COAL SHAFT AT TODDS BROOK RESERVOIR.
 
In reply to your instructions, respecting the above.    The following information I have received from a Mr William Southern, Snr. No 4, Roach Cottages, Whaley Bridge.    This man informs me that he has worked in this coal Pit and is acquainted with the old shaft that exists in the Todds Brook Reservoir.    He states that the said shaft has not been sunk the full depth, but is stopped some few yards before reaching the coal.    He says there has been a heading driven, from the Coal, outside the Reservoir, to the Bottom of the old Shaft that is in the Reservoir.    He states that the said Shaft has been tipped full of Puddle from the Bottom and is protected on the Top with large stone flags.    Some 10 or 15 years ago, our company complained of water escaping from the Reservoir down this shaft.    Southern was one of the men employed to test this complaint.    He states there was a large quantity of water lying in the pit where the Coal had been worked.    This water he assisted to pump out with hand pumps; they succeeded in getting it dry and found the Heading leading to the old Shaft, examined the same and found that there was no escape of water but that it was practically dry.    He states that perfect reliance can be placed on the above statement.
 
 
frjamie@talktalk.net  
#91 Posted : 01 February 2010 23:52:11(UTC)
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My dear R S S,

How good to hear from you,  I trust you are not getting to misrable with regards to the weather !

Interesting how the Reservoir was built in its present location, and would they get away with it today. 

I was told recently that their is supposed to be a change in ownership of Reservoirs  and Canals, and that it is supposed to be placed under the National Trust.

It would be intersting if this happenns.

Only the other day their was people working on the Reservoir, who knows in a few years time their may be houses floating on it !!!!!!

I  am sure that work is due to start again this year, something  to do with the bottom sluice. 

I never understand why the school was built in front of it in the first place. 

We saw a picture last year of the school being built, RSS  do you know who the land belonged to at the time ?

Hope all is well.

 

RockBanker  
#92 Posted : 02 February 2010 09:52:10(UTC)
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frjamie@talktalk.net wrote:

I was told recently that their is supposed to be a change in ownership of Reservoirs  and Canals, and that it is supposed to be placed under the National Trust. 

Not quite. The board of British Waterways is proposing that the canal system be moved out of government ownership into an organisation similar to the National Trust.

http://www.britishwaterways.co.uk/twentytwenty

Rock "Yellow Alert" Banker

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frjamie@talktalk.net  
#93 Posted : 02 February 2010 12:50:37(UTC)
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Good afternoon Rock banker,

Good to hear from you,  many thanks for giving the info over, do you know why they are looking at doing this, and what will become of British Waterways ?.

 

RockBanker  
#94 Posted : 02 February 2010 13:18:57(UTC)
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There are I believe many reasons. Primarily would seem to be a question of funding. The government grant for British Waterways has been reduced quite significantly and is likely to be cut again given the current economic climate. The Board believe that they can develop a more robust method for funding the canal system as an independent trust. Quite how they will do this is a matter of some debate. The current commercial income streams from boat licenses, moorings and property etc are clearly not sufficient at the moment. It would be difficult from a practical point of view to raise additional income from other canal users - those who use the towpaths for walking and cycling or who visit the canal for other non-boating leisure purposes. There is limited scope to use the canal system for commercial carrying - With a few exceptions the canals form an un-modernised Georgian or early Victorian transport system.

What will become of the canal system? Good Question.
Rock "Yellow Alert" Banker

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frjamie@talktalk.net  
#95 Posted : 02 February 2010 14:14:19(UTC)
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Many thanks for that Rock Banker.  

It is interesting to see what will happen.

I wonder if they would have some spare money to do up our Canal Wharf in the basement !!!!!!

R. Stephenson-Smythe  
#96 Posted : 02 February 2010 18:54:33(UTC)
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Hi Jamie,
 
And here we have the proof that miracles do happen. Well sometimes but I shall refrain for 5 days from mentioning our Council.
 
 
Taken from a newspaper cutting dated 18th Jan 1873.
 
 
miraculous escape of two men.    On Wednesday evening week, at about 7 o’clock a most singular occurrence took place at Fernilee near Whaley Bridge, to two men who were engaged in working in search of coals, at a shaft which had been opened by Mr Lehas Proctor.    It was 14 yards deep and the working underneath extended to some 50 yards from the pit mouth, and whilst the men, one of whom was called John Jodrell, were busy, the water burst in with such force, as to sweep both of them right away, and forced them to the top of the shaft, where they were pulled out by J. Proctor, who was working at the top.    Both had a most miraculous escape, as the shaft was filled with water.
 
 
However the provider of miracles was either on holiday or taking the day off to go fishing on this next occasion:
 
Taken from a cutting from the same newspaper dated 10 October 1874:
 
a man found dead in a coalpit.    On Tuesday last, a sad occurrence was made known in Whaley Bridge, a young man named John Haslam, descended the coalpit of Messrs Proctor at Fernilee, and not returning in such a length of time as it was thought he might have done, a search was made, and he was found dead in the pit, apparently having been choked with damp.
 
Well I suppose you never know when your luck’s in or not.
 
R. S-S
frjamie@talktalk.net  
#97 Posted : 02 February 2010 21:42:44(UTC)
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Dear R S S,

I have just had a vision,

Now as you know a lot of people in Horwich end have just seen the light,  yes they have been kept waiting outside the pub thinking if these light's dont change soon im having a pint  !!!!!

Now it was our Dora who came up with an excellent idea of doing more for charity here in Whaley Bridge, and backed by our very own

Cllr Jon.

So I have a plan,  as you know I said recently that my skills at walking on water are not very good,  so I have gone for the next best thing.

We can build a ducking board at the bottom our our garden on the pond, and people can be put on the ducking board in the name of charity.

Now we could do it  around the time of elections as it tends to me warmer water then, and raise some money for our local charities.

Im sure that all our cllr's would take part in this in supporting their people, and R S S  would you be kind enough to perhaps put a list of people together.

I am sure that one person who would not off  missed  out on such fun would be  the

late Cllr  King Jake !!!!!!

 

 

R. Stephenson-Smythe  
#98 Posted : 03 February 2010 16:40:29(UTC)
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As tempting as your invitation is Jamie; I think on this occasion I had better pass.
 
Although, thinking about it Fedup might well be your man.
 
We shall await developments.
 
R. S-S
Fedup  
#99 Posted : 03 February 2010 18:15:41(UTC)
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There you go again R.S-S - dragging me into trouble!

But yes, you're quite correct, I could very easily draw up a list...........the only problem would be deciding who would be at the top of it.

Hmmmm, there again, perhaps not that much of a problem after all.......

Edited by user 03 February 2010 18:16:16(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

parabuild  
#100 Posted : 21 March 2010 10:06:30(UTC)
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I imagine this was early 20th Century.  Not a cormorant in sight.

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