I'm sorry, Yes, I did say that Bings Wood belongs to Bings Farm. I meant to say that in the time of the mass tresspass this was so. Obviously things have changed over the last 150 years.

Edited by user 29 December 2010 14:25:52(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

My good friend Robert,

We did indeed find the well pictured on your photographs, despite the two obvious red herrings, namely the pile of rubble that you claimed be alongside , and the fact that it never runs dry. The ground between the well and the goit was remarkably lacking in running water, and I suspect your pile of rubble must have been a small snowdrift!

Now the location of the well has been established satisfactorily, Dave and I feel sure the access to it would have been from the footpath that has been mentioned, running from Beech Road, across the incline, and up to Bings Road. This is the route we took, as others would have meant a leap across the goit, which would have been a little parlous had we been carrying pails of water away from the well.

Given that one of the original trespasses was from the smithy to the well, and this smithy was by the level crossing on Old Road, it does seem to indicate that what had so upset the LNWR was people walking along the railway from the level crossing then down the incline as far as the foot crossing by Beech Road. The position of this crossing is clearly indicated by concrete posts (which would have held warning notices when the line was still in use) on either side of the embankment.

Another of the more interesting aspects of this tale is that it upsets the commonly-held view that in those days there was little social contact between "bosses" and us ordinary folks, as Adam Morten clearly took the side of his employees and their neighbours against the might of the LNWR, and fought the legal case on their behalf.  - Well Done, Adam, I say!

Going back to one of your questions - they would presumably not use the goit water for drinking, as they would rightly suspect that the water would not be of "drinking quality", owing to the visible opportunities for the goit water to become tainted. Whereas, water from a spring would be assumed to be purer.

Jacko Thats Nid yn neis iawn

I've re-read all the reports of this trespass now R S-S has completed the tale, and I have come to the conclusion that the REAL issue wasn't crossing the incline to get to the well from Beech Road, but using the length of line from Proctor's Crossing (on Old Road) down the incline to Bridge Street as a public footpath. The mass trespasses all seem to have involved getting on to the line at either Old Road, or at Bridge Street.

The references to Wood Well, and access to it, appear to me as a useful side-isue in trying to win the "sympathy" vote, first from the LNWR, and then from the jurors. It is variously claimed as being the ONLY well available to Whaley inhabitants, as the only one that doesn't dry up, and as a relatively recent creation to replace one destroyed when the CHPR was built. It can't be all three, and definitely isn't the ONLY one, as DaveTheScope's old map will testify. However, it rather looks like it was a red herring that was usefully employed in ensuring a victory for Mr Morten.

As a consequence of this court case, were the LNWR forced to remove the "Trespassers Will be Prosecuted" notices at the foot of the incline and at Proctor's Crossing?

Did this length of the CHPR subsequently become a public footpath?

In the "trains" section of the Photo album, there is a good picture looking up the incline from the bridge over the Goyt, which seems to show a well-trodden path on the right of the lines - I suspect that this would have been officially used to lead the horses from the bottom of the incline to the top,  but would also have been used as the short-cut from Bridge St to Old Road.

This leads me to some questions that G.Jackson might have been able to answer before he succumbed to Mad Buwch Disease....

Did the railway use separate teams of horses for shunting at the bottom of the incline from those that worked along the top section between Shallcross Goods and the Horse Gin?  Or were the same team used on both sections?

Were wagons destined for Goyt Mills and the Printworks taken by the "main-line" train right into Shallcross Goods, from where the horses would take them back to Whaley Incline, or did the mainline train merely shunt them onto the spur leading to the incline on its way to Shallcross?

Edited by user 31 December 2010 14:58:42(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Here, somewhat belatedly, are some photographs of when Dave the Scope and myself went to investigate this wonderful well. As you can see, its hardly the well that kept Whaley Bridge in drinking water and cups of tea!

buggyite attached the following image(s):

Name the day and time. Shall I bring my JCB with a small bucket?

Edited by user 10 January 2011 21:33:51(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

I don't like agreeing with R.S-S after all the insults he has directed at me over the last few months but I have always known the little waterways as goats. There are some down the Torrs in New Mills and I went to a lecture at New Mills Town Hall given by Derek Broomhead of New Mills Heritage Centre and he called them goats.