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AndrewBentley  
#1 Posted : 02 June 2011 08:06:06(UTC)
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Having read some interesting and sometimes bizarre! stories about Shallcross Hall or Shallcross Manor as it was called locally, I asked my mother to recall her memories of when she lived there. She kindly sent me the following reply:

I lived at Shallcross from 1950 to 1954 where my two children, Laetitia and Andrew, were born. My husband H.A.de L.Berry (John) had a Merchant Converting business in Manchester called “John Berry & Co.” Prior to our marriage he had bought the Hall from Georges Kopp and used it for offices for his business leaving the warehouse still in Manchester..   At that time he owned a Great Dane called Betty. Betty unfortunately had a penchant for live chickens and eventually Mrs. Lomas on the farm next to us ran out of patience and I found a good home for Betty in Yorkshire with no chickens in sight. Apart from her chicken hang-up she was a very gentle dog if a bit short of brainpower and I doubt would be able to put her mind to a decent haunt.
 
The offices were moved back to Manchester and I had at that time a resident maid and Mrs. Stafford and Mrs. Clark as daily employees in the house. They lived on the estate below the entrance to the drive. Some time later Mrs. Clark’s daughter married and she and her husband were looking for work, so when my maid left I offered them the West attached wing of the house and she was to work in the house and he in the garden. This arrangement did not last for very long. I have no recollection of a motor bike being at the Hall and I bought all my meat from the butcher in Whaley Bridge.
 
We put in central heating throughout the house from a huge boiler in the basement under the kitchen, and also washbasins in the bedrooms of the first floor and during this work we found a George 2nd.   two-penny piece which I still have. This work was much more difficult than anticipated as the between floor beams were massive. The windows on the East side were all blocked in because of the window tax.       
 
The cellars were extensive and the fireplaces in all the ground floor rooms had chutes under their grates going directly into stone troughs built in the cellars to receive the ashes.
 
Connecting the dining room to the butler’s pantry was a 1.5m. (roughly) passage with a door at either end. As the butler’s pantry was the start of the East wing the length of the passage must have been the width of the original outside wall of the house.
 
The beautiful, sleek black drophead car was my Railton. It had a straight 8 Hudson engine and was designed by Railton who had designed the Blue Bird for Sir Malcolm Campbell. John Berry had a hobby of resuscitating vintage cars and had a RR Silver Ghost: a RR Phantom 2, and latterly a RR Phantom3 which he used on business.
 
After Betty left us I bought a magnificent St. Bernard puppy called Brutus, who taught my eldest daughter to walk and was a most affectionate dog. She came with me when I left in 1954.
 
In Taxal Church was a tomb for the Shallcross family and several on the female side were named Laetitia (Latin for joy) which we christened our daughter. There was a story that the “Roundheads” had captured a troop of the “Cavaliers” and imprisoned them in the Church and when it was eventually opened they were all dead. There was, it is believed, a sword of this time found in the garden at Shallcross.
 
We were led to understand that the land was originally given to (William?) Shallcross for his service to the King in the Battle of Crecy (1323). Presumably that would have comprised a considerable area. When we owned it there remained only 17 acres which we rented to Mr. Lomas on the home farm.    The house was separated from the pastures by a ha-ha.  
 
Mrs. Lomas had a vast knowledge of the area and was prominent in the movement which was hoping to resuscitate the extensive canal system for what we would now call the “tourist trade”. She had two sons who worked the farm with their father and a younger daughter.
 
I have a small book entitled “Shallcross and Yeardsley Halls” which was reprinted from the Derbyshire Archaeological and Natural History Society’s Journal of 1905, and is written by Ernest Gunson.   This contains some detail and architectural plans which I would be happy to photostat for you should you be interested.
 
Pamela Bentley       
Queensland
Australia

 

 

Edited by user 02 June 2011 08:18:58(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

R. Stephenson-Smythe  
#2 Posted : 02 June 2011 08:49:34(UTC)
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Hello, Andrew,
 
That is a very interesting piece and a good addition to the recent history of Shallcross Hall.
 
I don’t know how we confused Brutus with Betty but we are, after all, simple country folk.
 
Mrs Clark’s daughter was called Joan and she was courting a Polish refugee after the war called Pavel (changed to Paul for the benefit of the English).
 
I have not spoken to Joan or Paul for some time, Paul is in a nursing home on Broad Walk in Buxton and is almost 90 now.
 
From what I remember them telling me about how they came to live at Shallcross is that they were not allowed to marry unless they had somewhere to live.
Mr. Berry was in the Board Inn one night and Paul and Joan were also there and told him of their predicament.
Mr. Berry said that the Hall needed a housekeeper and general handyman and Paul and Joan were offered the jobs and so were able to get married.
Their married name was Listwan. I did think that they occupied the East wing of the house.
I’ll see if I can visit Joan in the next few days to confirm this with her and I’ll let you know on here.
 
The St. Thomas Beckett Church in Chapel-en-le-Frith (the next town to Whaley) was used to imprison soldiers defeated at the Battle of Preston for 16 days and when the Church was opened 40 of them were dead and they are buried in the graveyard there.
 
It would be really good if you could print the layout of the Hall on here for us.
 
Incidentally you mention that Shallcross Hall was known as Shallcross Manor locally which it was and that is how Manor Road got its name. But on a series of postcards picturing the Hall it is inaccurately name Smallcross Hall.
 
R. S-S
 
 
 
AndrewBentley  
#3 Posted : 02 June 2011 10:08:32(UTC)
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I'm glad to be of assistance. I'll take up my mother's offer of copying the book she mentions and post it here as requested.
Horwich Ender  
#4 Posted : 02 June 2011 19:42:32(UTC)
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It's fantastic to see contributions on this forum (relating to Whaley Bridge) from Frankfurt and Queensland.

Please keep them coming.


 

Neil A Shaw  
#5 Posted : 02 June 2011 21:36:54(UTC)
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Good Evening RSS

If you recall, I stumbled across the mystery of Georges Kopp whilst studying the Spanish Civil War.

Kopp enjoyed life to the full and was supposedly the inspiration for George Orwell when he wrote 1984. His Case Officer at MI5 was Anthony Blunt.

The dates would all correspond with the letter from Mrs Bentley.

Fascinating that a man with so many secrets was recuperating in Whaley Bridge during the early 1950s

 

 

thanks 1 user thanked Neil A Shaw for this useful post.
marymary119 on 05/10/2013(UTC)
R. Stephenson-Smythe  
#6 Posted : 03 June 2011 14:57:12(UTC)
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Absolutely, Neil,
 
I could not agree more; this could turn out to be a marvellous thread. Let’s just hope it doesn’t get hijacked like many of the others.
 
I should be able to give some more information about the Hall later today if I get the chance.
 
R. S-S
Ferni  
#7 Posted : 04 August 2011 19:40:03(UTC)
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I'm still waiting with, baited breath, for an update on this thread. I hope the OP hasn't forgotten.

Speak your truth quietly and clearly, and listen to others -even to the dull and the ignorant; they too have their story.
Manchester Rambler  
#8 Posted : 06 September 2011 13:37:39(UTC)
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Around 1964/65 I was walking in the Whaley Bridge area and stumbled across a deserted mansion marked on the map as Shallcross Manor.  The door was slightly ajar and, peering inside, a spectacular chandelier could be seen hanging drunkenly from the ceiling. When I returned to walking in Whaley Bridge many years later I tried unsuccessfully  to discover the whereabouts of this mansion and assumed it had been demolished. Recently I have become curious to find out more about this place but most of the people to whom I've spoken cannot remember the existence of a Shallcross Manor.  I've enquired at the Stockport and New Mills Heritage Centres but drawn a blank.  A few months ago I met someone who seemed familiar with Shallcross Manor, told me some of its history and directed me to Whaley Bridge Library for more information. There I found an information folder on Shallcross Hall but the photgraphs in the folder were not how I remembered.  Also, the information in this forum refers to the hall being inhabited in the early 1950s whilst I had been told that it had been requisitioned during World War II and been derelict since then until it was demolished  in the late 1960s. Was there a Shallcross Manor and a Shallcross Hall or are they one and the same? If they were different buildings has anyone any information and/or photographs of Shallcross Manor?  If they are different names for the same house does anyone know the history of Shallcross Hall after the family who lived there in the early '50s moved out?

Thank you 

Norm  
#9 Posted : 09 November 2011 23:04:55(UTC)
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AndrewBentley wrote:
I'm glad to be of assistance. I'll take up my mother's offer of copying the book she mentions and post it here as requested.

Just to keep you informed.

Andrew attempted to upload this to the forum, but size limitations prevented it. He is currently emailing it to me and I will either compress it for the forum or put it on the website.

Norm

Norm  
#10 Posted : 10 November 2011 17:55:15(UTC)
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I have converted the Word document into a pdf document and you can download it from the site using this link

http://www.whaleybridge.net/localhistory/shallcross/Shallcross.pdf

Norm

Edited by user 10 November 2011 17:56:15(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

JonG  
#11 Posted : 11 November 2011 23:05:48(UTC)
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Fascinating !

Many thanks to Andrew.

Cheers

Jon.

Jon Goldfinch - Forum Administrator and Town Councillor
Whaley Bridge Town Council - Fernilee Ward

cllr.jong.wbtc@googlemail.com
parabuild  
#12 Posted : 12 November 2011 00:00:38(UTC)
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Searching for Ernest Gunson on the internet led me to this website where there is much to read under the heading "The Owners Of Shallcross"  www.archive.org/stream/journalofderbysh28derb/journalofderbysh28derb_djvu.txt

Ferni  
#13 Posted : 22 November 2011 20:31:44(UTC)
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Andrew, Norm & Parabuild, I'm indebted to you all for supplying that information. I read through both enclosures last night and although I ended up a bit cross-eyed with the effort, I now have a whole new appreciation ( tinged with sadness at its demise after such longevity ) of the place.

Did anyone manage to speak to Joan Lisztwan ? I've not seen her in a long while though I have her granddaughter in my Facebook, so I may enquire via her.

Speak your truth quietly and clearly, and listen to others -even to the dull and the ignorant; they too have their story.
Ferni  
#14 Posted : 25 November 2011 15:01:04(UTC)
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http://www.archive.org/s...8derb#page/n171/mode/2up

the footnote on this page of the Journal alludes to the fine row of lime trees welcoming the passing traveller.

I visited the site yesterday and paced out the trees. They are 8 yards apart and there is still evidence of hard standing/road. The beginning of them lines up directly with what - I now think - was the original entrance to the original Hall ( the hall became the Manor when it had its rebuild in the 16th century, according to some documentation presented here ) and faced due west. The end of them have been decimated, presumably by Shukers when they took over Lomas' farm and cut a trackway across the 2 farms' lands. New trees have been planted but not to the extent they once were. Maybe they were rotten; who knows?
.

.. Indeed there is the evidence of a gateway into the enclosed area, and if you take a look at one of the photos taken from the manor field you can see the original Hall adjacent to the Manor as suggested in the document.

.

.. incredibly fascinating stuff. I'm thrilled to be finding out so much about the Manor where I once played.
File Attachment(s):
DSC_0088.JPG (1,673kb) downloaded 72 time(s).
Ferni attached the following image(s):
DSC_0085.jpg

Speak your truth quietly and clearly, and listen to others -even to the dull and the ignorant; they too have their story.
R. Stephenson-Smythe  
#15 Posted : 28 November 2011 15:45:13(UTC)
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Hello Ferni,
 
Many thanks for posting the attachment that shows ‘The Ring of Trees’ at Shallcross Hall; perhaps WKN could put them on so that we do not have to open the attachment. Over to you Norm.
 
Within some of the archived stuff I have on the Hall is the drawing below.
 
You will see that there were originally 2 ‘Rings of Trees’ and one was cut down some years ago by Mr. X.
 
You can also see the position and layout of the Hall and you will also see to the front of the Hall an old Air Shaft. This Air Shaft was a part of Shallcross Hall Colliery which was situated where the swings now are behind Vaughan Road.
For quite some time the Air Shaft was used to dispose of asbestos waste from Ferodo and many lorry loads were simply tipped into it. I don’t know if Ferodo had any permissions to do this and it was certainly before Health and Safety or Environmental Health were in power. It was eventually capped off and fenced around on three sides and used as a passing place for traffic. Goodness knows where the asbestos waste is now or what effect it had on the ground water that was down there.
 
By the way Ferni do you remember the huge searchlights that were at the Hall to spot enemy planes?
 
Shallcross Manor was bought in the late 1960’s by a gentleman named Harry Rogerson and he started building the bungalows in about 1971.
 
Harry also bought the plot of land on Whaley Lane on the left hand side as you go up just below what was the Old People’s Home; it now has a large limestone boulder to stop people from fly tipping etc. He obtained Planning Consent for a dwelling and there was the usual clause in those days that said the works must commence within 5 years.
Harry asked Building Control just what constituted a ‘start’ and the Building Inspector advised him that if he dug a strip foundation 6 feet by 8 feet and concreted it in that would be deemed as a start. Harry did just that and obtained a letter from Building Control that the works had commenced. He then back-filled the trench and the site has remained like that for all these years but the Planning Consent is still in force because of his keen knowledge of Planning Law..
I have not seen Harry for many years and I don’t even know if he is still with us.
 
I hope this is of some use to you.
 
R. S-S
 
Photo now on post 17 courtesy of WKN.

Edited by user 01 December 2011 13:24:43(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Norm  
#16 Posted : 28 November 2011 17:19:40(UTC)
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Photo of trees from post #14

Norm attached the following image(s):
trees.jpg
Norm  
#17 Posted : 28 November 2011 17:21:56(UTC)
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Drawing from post #15

Norm attached the following image(s):
map.jpg
Ferni  
#18 Posted : 28 November 2011 21:15:45(UTC)
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wow , thanks R. S-S (and Norm of course ) for that - that's about as close to the last moments prior to demolition that I think I've seen. 

I was a bit too young to remember the searchlights though, but was old enough to witness the inferno as it was razed to the ground ( I was about 8 or 9 - the same age as the year ) when it went, even got out of bed, raced up the lane and watched as the firemen trained their hoses on a huge ball of fire.

When I was up there the other day and just about to climb the gate into the meadow opposite the farm ( I spotted a narrow gateway, a site entrance and a small kiln fired trough ..sink ? )  there, and along the road came Ralph Longden who I've knwon since year dot, and who was raised on Shallcross estate. We spent a good while talking about our memories of the area, and he told me of  the open air shaft nearby, right next to the cherry tree. As children we climbed that tree,  which was halfway up the lane and yes, the wagon layby ( which I understand now was for wagons tipping ) is still there. The tree is in an appalling condition, but indeed, the depressing right at the side of it is definitely there, of the old air shaft.  Asbestos? I dread to think what else is in there. Ralph said everyone used to come up and dump their rubbish in it.

Thanks to  http://maps.cheshire.gov.uk/tithemaps/Default.aspx  you can search for Taxal and compare maps available at the time and most revealing is the twinmaps of 1910 on the left and aerial photography of 1970s on the right. I don't know how to upload that search result on here so if you do a search with 'taxal' you'll see what I mean. The houses on the site, on the aerial 1970's show they had just been built, indeed the top bungalow hadn't yet been built.  The semi circles of trees are completely intact and on the 1910 map you can see the location of the colliery. ( on one of the threads here there is a photo of Shallcross colliery - which looks to have been quite a smal one ) 

File Attachment(s):
shallcross colliery.doc (116kb) downloaded 111 time(s).

Speak your truth quietly and clearly, and listen to others -even to the dull and the ignorant; they too have their story.
Curious  
#19 Posted : 29 November 2011 09:21:45(UTC)
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Hi

I'm just killing time while waiting to go and have a filling, so I've done a print screen of the 1910 vs 1970 maps of Shallcross Hall - see attached.

Mrs C

 

File Attachment(s):
Shallcross Hall 1910 vs 1970.jpg (260kb) downloaded 192 time(s).
R. Stephenson-Smythe  
#20 Posted : 29 November 2011 17:45:46(UTC)
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Curious wrote:

Hi

I'm just killing time while waiting to go and have a filling, so I've done a print screen of the 1910 vs 1970 maps of Shallcross Hall - see attached.

Mrs C

 

 

A very good evening to you Mrs. Curious,
 
I presume when you said you were waiting to go for a filling you were referring to a trip to the dentist and not a filling of your body with white wine which would be more up Lady Madonna’s street.
 
If that is correct I hope you survived the ordeal. I have dreadful recollections of visits to the dentist in my younger days. We were carted off to a dentist in Chapel on Market Street and you always had to have ‘gas’.
The dentist would examine you and then put a rubber mask over your face; a bit like the fighter pilots used to wear in WW11. He would then do what ever needed to be done and then you would be carried out unconscious back to the waiting room. After a bit you would come round with a bandage around your head and jaw with blood dripping from your mouth and the strangest taste of rubber imaginable.
Then the dentist would appear, presumably to check whether you were still alive or not, and if he saw some movement or even a few tears he would say to your Mum: “That didn’t hurt him at all take him home and bring him back in six months and I’ll give him another filling or for a real treat I may take one of his back teeth out.”
You would then stagger off down the road to the bus stop like an eight year old alcoholic thinking: “Oh yeah I can’t wait. I think I’ll make plans to run away from home in six months.” It was that bad you almost thought about chucking yourself under the bus if you got the chance.
Happy days indeed.
 
By the way I have not seen Mr. Curious for ages even though I have been looking out for him. I hope you are doing your sworn duty and taking great care of him.
 
R. S-S

 

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