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There have been some good threads about rail transport around the area, but as well as lost rail lines there are a number of forgotten road systems, I thought I might start with the Pack horse routes that cross the Upper Goyt Valley, you can still find evidence of these routes but Ill leave that till later and also the Romans legacy and the development of the Turnpike roads.
Consider how difficult travel was before the roads we take so much for granted today, no lights, sign – posts and a confusion of muddy straggling tracks over the bleak high moorland, in the lowlands huge thickly wooded areas stretching through The Macclesfield Forest and The Peak Forest, woods still teeming with wild boar, deer and prior to 1486 wolf, not to mention robbers and highwaymen looking for easy pickings, legend has it that Pym Chair gets its name from the highwayman Pym leader of a gang of scoundrels who sat on a stone chair watching for his next traveller to ambush, approaching Oldgate Nick, you can see Oldgate Nick from both Saltersford and Errwood sides of Cats Tor and this feature of the skyline was a marker used by travelers as a point to walk to, A highwayman by the name of Black Harry plagued the packhorse trains further along one of the routes between Tideswell & Bakewell crossing the moors around Wardlow, that is until he was arrested hung, drawn and quartered – and duly gibbeted - on the Gallows Tree at Wardlow Mires, the death penalty was introduced in 1772 for being armed and disguised (face blackened) on high roads and open moors. |
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When Mary Queen of Scots was captive in Buxton these routes that passed through Goyt Valley into Buxton were watched by government spies by order of Lord Walsingham and whilst the Queen was in Buxton no strangers were allowed to enter the town for fear of Catholic conspiracy against Queen Elizabeth 1, Buxton was very well known throughout Elizabethan England and received visits from many famous and infamous members of Elizabeth’s court, anyway that may be for another thread (if your interested of course), certainly nothing wheeled could pass over the high moorland, even large horses found the going very difficult on the soft peat, as an example the first wheeled transport between Liverpool and Manchester didn’t happen until 1760, so crossing this Derbyshire moorland terrain was tough, it wasn’t until a 1697 act made local Justice of the peace erect Stoops ( Inscribed Waymarkers ), that any sort of signage on large moors or commons existed, I don’t know of any surviving around the Goyt does anyone else? they were the size of a Farm gatepost, directions often indicated by a pointing hand and travellers found their way by turning to the right of the inscription which usually pointed to the nearest Market town. these routes have left clues in place names like Saltersford, Jaggers Clough at Edale, Saltergate at Chesterfield, The Pack Horse at Hayfield all owe their names to these routes, there was a piece of ground in Buxton known as Salters field
More to follow |
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The Jaggers leading these trains had to know their routes they were responsible for the safe arrival of the goods carried and would stick to what they were familiar with, Tudor governments made the first efforts to deal with road problems passing acts in 1555 to use local labour under the parish overseers to repair and maintain highways, ruling ‘’no man has the right to sow peas, stack manure or dig his Marl on the highway’’ if the highway was blocked The Kings liege had the right to make way over adjoining land even by taking down hedges, so if a section of highway became too deep in mud, they just moved sideways and started a new track the land owner having no choice, although before the enclosure acts walls and hedges on roads were few,
Pack horse trains could be as small as six but as many as forty, the horse breed in the early days were called Chapman which was crossed with the imported Barb and developed into the breed Cleveland Bay, other breeds later used for pack were Galloway and Welsh Ponies.
Definition - Chapman – Horse used as Pack horse
Chapmen – Merchant travelling with Pack horse
The average horse carried 240lbs either in panniers or saddles or a rough pad known as a Panel secured with cord or ropes known as Wantys or Wantows, over good terrain they expected to cover 30 miles a day,
incidentally it is recorded that a trotting Pack Horse team sounded like a troop of Cavalry, this sound was probably made by the jingling of the load securing points called Wanty Hooks where the cords were fastened.
As well as Pack horse some more accessible parts of these routes would later be used by Drovers, Wains and Badgers (A dealer in meal, dairy, malt, eggs etc) |
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That’s all very, very interesting Shallcross,
Some time ago I was told that, before the construction of Toddbrook Reservoir, there was a pack horse trail through that valley.
Does this tie in at all with Saltersford?
R. S-S
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Dear RSS,
Hope you are well, and enjoying this excellent weather !!!!
The path which goes through Toddbrook, is that the path facing path from the hall basically in line with the Dam ?
Going back before Whaley Bridge was a Village, when it was then known as the Marsh,
I shall have to get my Dowsing Rods out !!!!!
Best wishes as always
Fr Jamie
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I've read somewhere, might even be the Whaley Bridge web site, that the Roman road originally followed the line of the dam.
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RSS
I havn't seen anything that specifically mentions Todbrook only the crossing of it at Saltersford, that isn't to say that there wasn't a packhorse route following The Todbrook itself, rivers large or small were major barriers to travel, water and muddy bankings were to be avoided if possible, I have seen reference to ''Jaggers Knowle'' near Horwich End but I couldnt pin point that and it may be refering to Taxal.
Parabuild / Fr jamie
The Roman Road did run Parallel with the Dam (more later)
People where possible found the easiest route from A - B the Land enclosure Acts changed a lot of routes by sectioning land and changing ancient grazing rights etc, I think greed probably raised its head (Private Land Keep off)! |
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Macclesfield had one of the largest concentration of Packhorse operators outside London, the majority travelling north with salt up into Yorkshire and returning with cloth, coal, lead etc
Pickfords Removals started its carrier business at Goyts Clough, quarrying and supplying paving stone to some of the major cities, these they carried by Packhorse and returned back with various goods, the Pickford family lived for many years at King Sterndale and were major benefactors in the area helping greatly with the finance for the building of King Sterndale Church
We had four main routes through The Goyt Valley with three crossing points across what was a major hazard, the river, you could loose a whole load in a swollen river so it is not by accident that much money was spent on the construction of The Pack horse bridges, these bridges seem a little remote now but they have over the years attracted people to either settle or work near to them, Errwood with farms and the Hall, Hill Bridge had the old Teazle Mill close by and Taxal with the Church and village.
The four crossing points through the upper Goyt being Goyts Moss, Goyts Bridge at Errwood, Hill Bridge and Taxal we know that there was a stone Packhorse bridge at Errwood and at Taxal and I strongly suspect looking at the stone pillars at Hill bridge there was one there too but I have seen no documented evidence of this (maybe someone can add to this), the main Salt routes are usually identified as Goyts Bridge and Taxal but I would say as all these routes developed, that salt would be carried on them all, all four routes across these points were later developed to take wheeled transport and the road system grew from this, (I’ll cover that another day) taking Goyts Moss first the route ran past the Cat & Fiddle following what can now be seen as the old Macclesfield Road past Goyts Moss I have seen part of this route at Burbage referred to as Jaggers Gate although not on a map, at Errwood the Packhorse bridge in a way misleadingly known as Goyts Bridge actually didn’t span the Goyt but was across Wildmerstone brook, the Goyt was crossed by a ford and stepping stones, looking at the old postcards produced, they nearly always show a view looking straight at the Pack horse bridge but the River Goyt is actually to the right of the picture where the rivers meet, the bridge that spans the Goyt was slightly further down river, wider and built primarily for carriage access for Coal, Barytes and Stone and to Errwood Hall and still sits quietly under the waters. The photos taken 1994 when the reservoir was low show the drive coming down from Errwood Hall and Goyts road bridge sitting in the mud Edited by user 07 September 2010 17:26:58(UTC)
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Shallcross,
As Robert has said elsewhere, your contributions to this forum have been excellent, beginning with some great old photographs, and now this thread about the old routes through the area. I am learning an awful lot of stuff I never knew before. Hopefully you'll cover Silk Hill at some point
I've taken the liberty of reducing the size of your last photo to fit "inline", and have attached it below buggyite attached the following image(s): |
Buggyite
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And the other one you posted while I was rambling....
buggyite attached the following image(s): |
Buggyite
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So what can still be seen of these ancient routes, well probably more than you would think, one of the legacies that the thousands of feet and hooves have left are the Holloways. Holloways are formed by countless travellers wearing down the soft peat causing deep hollows, when they became to difficult to pass they just moved sideways on a new pathway, you may have driven past many times and never noticed one of the best examples, next time you cross the top of long hill stop where you turn to Errwood and look both sides of the road those deep furrows are not naturally accuring, you can trace them all the way down toward The Goyt to Cromford High Peak railway / Sandy Lane, likewise they can be seen heading for Buxton in the fields top side of Long Hill until you get to ground that has been ploughed. Holloways can also be seen coming out of Saltersford heading up Cats Tor to Old Gate Nick, also if you get the chance follow the road through Saltersford turn right for Rainow / Bollington the road drops down past some cottages with a Red telephone box, look to the right and you can see another good example of Holloways heading down the field, whilst there carry on turn to your right stop in the small layby and look back at the skyline and Old Gate Nick in the distance you can see why it was important for guiding travellers, there are also good examples of Holloways coming over from Goyts Moss, as you leave Buxton via Cat & Fiddle on your right hand side where the Waterboard have a small stone building near the road and the old road goes off to the left. If you want to look from your armchair its pretty good what you can see from Google Earth, zoom in at the top of Long Hill you can see things that you can’t from ground level. I have written this assuming the persons reading has no knowledge of Holloways forgive me if you are already familiar with these fascinating pieces of History, I quite often walk through them stand and wonder who passed this way and what a relief it must have been reaching the top of such a long climb, seeing Buxton in the distance below, if nothing else it gives some indication of how many persons travelled these routes and for how long.
The Bridge is Taxal Packhorse Bridge as reported by RSS in a previous thread damaged beyond repair in a flood, the stone in the middle I assume will be denoting the Derbyshire / Cheshire border
And the Holloways are the top of Long Hill go and look yourselves and imagine the effort of those horses carrying 240 lbs each (nearly 18 stone) |
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The two photos from post #12
Edited by user 08 September 2010 21:19:11(UTC)
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The Romans also travelled through the Goyt Valley 2000 years ago and left future travellers some good sound road systems some of which we still use today, the Roman Roads were well constructed and paved, most people know that they constructed roads as straight and direct as possible but a long straight road doesn’t always mean it is Roman, many of today’s roads do follow the line of previous Roads if not exactly as for instance the Romans did themselves at Batham Gate they used part of the route of a Bronze Age track running from Arbor Low to the Bull Ring at Dove Holes.
We have to mention Buxton again its importance to the fabric of The Goyt Valley, I think living locally we forget how special the water is there are only two warm spas in the country Bath & Buxton The Romans knew and respected the Spa of Blue Water, its importance to them is one reason why we have so many Roman routes around us
There are two Roman road systems passing through The Goyt Valley one passing through Central Whaley and one passing to the South of Kettleshulme at Fox Hill
Coming from Derby they leave Buxton as one via the current Manchester Road, splitting above Cold Springs Farm where the current road takes a sharp turn left.
The Road to the left followed a route down to Errwood via Goyts Lane crossing the Goyt and up toward Pym Chair on the road still known as The Street, (Embridge Causeway) then onwards through Pott Shrigley and Bramhall,
The other runs up behind Brookfield and White Hall Passing close to the Iron age Hill fort at Castle Naze overlooking Combs & Chapel then through Wythen Lache, (Lache means Lake) Wainstones past Elnor Lane Farm down Elnor Lane crossing the river at Horwich End, under Toddbrook reservoir somewhere near to the Dam wall, then up Black Hill along what is now referred to as Disley Tops down through Lane Ends into Disley and beyond, for close on 1800 years this was the only road between Whaley & Buxton until the development of the Turnpikes, most of the route is Tarmac but just above the lodge for Brookfield House, part of the road remains unmetaled and very much untouched it does give a glimpse of how narrow it was and what it must have looked like for many years shallcross attached the following image(s): |
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Fascinating. Keep it coming.
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Just for once I completely agree with you Harry.
This is really good stuff and Well Known Norm needs to be saving this for his new website.
Excellent contributions, once again, Shallcross. Thank you.
By the way Harry, I know your last effort was rather short but congratulations to you also for the vast improvement on your grammar and sentence construction. You can be proud of yourself once more.
R. S-S
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As the road system began to develop Wains and carts were a natural progression becoming more widely used on many sections of the packhorse routes, the higher soft moor land was still not accessible to wheeled transport but as Whaley and the surrounding areas grew so did the roads
Goyts Moss didn’t have a major river crossing and the route changed very little as the roads were turnpiked the Old Macclesfield road is still clearly visible coming from the Cat & Fiddle down through Goyts Moss up and over to Burbage and into Buxton you can also still see the road dividing to the right this crosses the present Cat & Fiddle Road then across Axe edge on its way through to Harpur Hill
Errwood still benefited from the remains of the Roman road and the ford on the river Goyt but a bridge was needed for carts and later coaches to cross, the main track toward Buxton from Errwood remained Goyts Lane until the Construction of the reservoir although if you stop on the street and look back the hillside below Bunsall Plain the ground shows a great many scars where countless travellers have found an alternative way.
Heading down the valley toward Fernilee the road climbed up past Errwood Farm, (The ruins are still visible to the left of Errwood Dam) crossing over Jep Clough via a small bridge made of tree trunks then past Stubbins Farm, Intake Farm and Masters Farm, at Masters Farm you could turn right past the Powder Mill and cross the valley up to Shawstile Farm, or carrying on at Masters Farm the road climbed up to Oldfield Farm then Normanwood Farm before dropping down to the Knipe (The road from the Knipe to Fernilee Dam is a private road constructed when the Reservoir was completed) you could then branch right for Hill Bridge and Fernilee or continue as it is today past Mill Clough Cottage then Madscar toward Overton, which is where the Packhorse route comes over Taxal Edge from Saltersford and Charles Head through Five lane ends nr Kettleshulme heading for the river crossings at Hill Bridge and Taxal. I have never seen it recorded anywhere but I presume it would have been at this point the decision would be made which crossing to take, depending if they were heading for Hayfield North or Chapel North
At this period all these roads would be in bad repair but free to use apart from the taxes levied on goods carried by each parish, bad repair of course would be their downfall as new roads with better surfaces and crossings were built but you had to pay!
two pictures
1 Looking across at Bunsall Plain
2 Bridge building the old way (not The Goyt I'm afraid) Edited by user 11 September 2010 11:10:41(UTC)
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After crossing at Hill Bridge (as at Taxal there is a bridge and a ford, as traffic increased the bridges weren’t wide enough) the traveller had a choice of two routes to the left straight up the field through Folds Lane Farm up the side of The Shady Oak, past Folds Farm and the Church either turning left on Elnor Lne and picking up the Old Roman road into Whaley then heading for the Bings and Silk Hill for Bugsworth then Hayfield, but more likely crossing Elnor lane up Bobs lane then across into Combs, or leaving Hill Bridge up into Fernilee past Folds End Farm and Arnfields Cottages ( the road that carries on past the front of Arnfields Cottages only went as far as the old Fernilee Hall Farm the steep road there now going up to Long Hill was constructed by the Farm for their use only) then over the river, sharp right up past Rock cottage and Ivy Cottage and onto Elnor Lane, then joining the other route at Bobs lane,
Remember at this stage there was no Long Hill Road.
From Taxal travellers crossed the bridge then up the Hill past Squires Walk up the hill past Shallcross Hall Farm, Shallcross Hall then either left or right on Elnor Lane, Left - Bugsworth, Hayfield, Right - Chapel, Edale there was also a track here going past Lee Head Farm Via Cadster and down into Tunstead Milton
The choices that must have been made as to which route to take would probably have been personal preference, weather conditions, goods carried, was the Goyt in flood etc |
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Here are the two photographs from post #17.
I see we have more pubs as well, I will get some in the album later today.
Cheers
Norm attached the following image(s):
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Sorry Norm but its….
A shame to spoil an interesting picture like “The Bridge Builders” I have left a better version where my website used to be, it will also give a space between the Errwood image which will look much more presentable.
(He’s away at the moment).
You can do it.
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