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davethescope  
#41 Posted : 01 March 2011 23:00:21(UTC)
davethescope
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Hi**.
Many ebooks have minor errors like that. Acceptable when you get them for nowt but annoying when you have paid good money

Another good website for free ebooks is Manybooks.net.
The optimist believes that Whaley Bridge is the best place in the world to live. The pessimist fears he might be correct.
snowy  
#42 Posted : 01 March 2011 23:38:57(UTC)
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Thanks RSS for all the postings about Dr Allen. Was he any relation to the Dr Allen who lived in Reservoir Rd in the 1950's?

You are right to compare the story with The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists. Thank goodness times have changed since then. It's just 100 years since the author died. I bought a paperback copy for £2.99 at the Brierlow Bar bookshop last year, so, for those who would like to read it, that's another possibility if they still have it in stock. I'm sure our excellent library can get hold of it as well.

Edited by user 01 March 2011 23:41:45(UTC)  | Reason: spelling

umtali  
#43 Posted : 02 March 2011 08:24:20(UTC)
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snowy wrote:

You are right to compare the story with The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists. Thank goodness times have changed since then. It's just 100 years since the author died

It was in fact published after his death….

He completed The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists in 1910, but the 1,600-page hand-written manuscript was rejected by the three publishing houses to which it was submitted. The rejections severely depressed Tressell, and Kathleen (His daughter) had to save the manuscript from being burnt. She placed it for safekeeping in a metal box underneath her bed.

After Tressell died of tuberculosis, Kathleen was determined to have her father's writing published and showed it to a friend, the writer Jessie Pope. Pope recommended the book to her own publisher, who bought the rights in April 1914 for £25. It was published that year in the UK, Canada, and the USA, the Soviet Union in 1920, and Germany in 1925. The publisher removed much of socialist ideology from the first edition; an unabridged edition with Tressell's original ending was not published until 1955.

(Wikipedia)

 

umtali  
#44 Posted : 02 March 2011 08:36:38(UTC)
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davethescope wrote:
Hi**.
Many ebooks have minor errors like that. Acceptable when you get them for nowt but annoying when you have paid good money
Another good website for free ebooks is Manybooks.net.

 

I have in fact now deleted the version I paid for, and yes it is annoying particularly so because the errors could so easily be corrected with a keyboard by the sellers. They have to be selling from text not image files.
R. Stephenson-Smythe  
#45 Posted : 02 March 2011 09:13:08(UTC)
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snowy wrote:

Thanks RSS for all the postings about Dr Allen. Was he any relation to the Dr Allen who lived in Reservoir Rd in the 1950's?

You are right to compare the story with The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists. Thank goodness times have changed since then. It's just 100 years since the author died. I bought a paperback copy for £2.99 at the Brierlow Bar bookshop last year, so, for those who would like to read it, that's another possibility if they still have it in stock. I'm sure our excellent library can get hold of it as well.

 

Hello Snowy,
 
I think you may be correct as Doctor Allan did father a doctor or two.
 
If you have read The Ragged Trousered Philanthropist you will see just how close this case is to become shortly.
By the way the book is always available.
 
R. S-S

 

High Peak News
 
24 March 1888
 
the sudden death of a woman at whaley bridge
 
To the Editor
 
Sir,
 
I was extremely sorry that, having been called away from Manchester on business, I was unable to answer the letter of Dr Allan, but there are now two other letters to reply to, and one to comment upon, and I hope that I may be allowed to fulfill the duty which has devolved upon me on account of my writing the first letter, and also justify my action in that respect.   
I propose, with your permission, to deal with the letters in the order they appear in your paper, selecting Dr Allan’s first.
 
After attacking the coroner, he states that it was four hours after the birth of the child that he was sent for, during which time “the unfortunate woman was being manipulated by a charwoman, during which it was the duty of the husband to have gone for Dr Anderson if he could not pay me.”    In the next paragraph he writes, “Although I hope I should not fail to attend to the claims of humanity, yet I do not recognize that the public have any right to expect from me gratuitous services, and I claim the right to refuse attendance where I please.   
Paragraph 4 contains the following excuse: ”I do not see that it is any necessary part of the duties of a medical man to remove by his mere presence the responsibilities naturally attaching to others,” and in the last paragraph puts forward his continued good relations with the club as evidence of the falsehood of Mr. Jodrell’s statement as to his having to be called six times, which if true, he states, would be equivalent to his dismissal; but in reply I would point out that he being the only doctor in the village is enabled to do many things with impunity which he would be afraid to do if there was any opposition in his profession.
 It is my intention to deal with the above quotations in their order:
 
First, It was, according to the statement of Mr. Jodrell, which he is prepared to uphold on oath before a jury, that it was three hours and a half after the birth of the child when he arrived at the doctor’s house, and was knocking there for thirty-five minutes before he got an answer, and had he been aware of the reply he would have gone to Chapel-en-le-Frith or Disley for a doctor, and would have been able to procure assistance during the time he wasted in knocking at the door, and he would willingly have paid the attendance fee himself.   
As for the woman being “manipulated by a charwoman,” Mr. Jodrell shows his sincerity in the matter by offering to have his wife taken from the grave, and a post-mortem examination made of her body.
 
Second, He makes the case worse because, after recognising the claims of humanity, he contends that no one has a right to expect gratuitous service from him, and claims the right to refuse attendance where he pleases. In this case he was certain of payment, because he knew where the man lived and worked, and had known him for several years, besides which he had the power by law to distrain for his debt, if not paid. So his excuse is nullified.    With regard to his right to refuse attendance, had there been another doctor in the village I would not question his right so much; but seeing that he is the only medical advisor in the place, I hold that he is bound to attend whenever and wherever he is required.
 
Third, He excuses himself on the ground that if he had gone he would have had to bear the responsibility. But, as in the former part of his letter, and the evidence of Mr. Jodrell, he shows clearly that he would have been quite willing to have accepted the responsibility had he received his guinea, which points, in my opinion, to selfishness, and does away entirely with that excuse.
 
Leaving Dr Allan, I come to “A.H. Colles,” who reiterates in his second paragraph what the doctor said; but, as I have clearly pointed out above, the doctor was quite willing to have accepted the responsibility providing he secured his fee.   
In the seventh paragraph of his letter he endeavours to justify the action of Dr Allan by stating that in his experience he could give many cases of a similar kind; and instances one quite recently where four doctors refused to move.    But I contend that the case in Salford (if that is the one to which he refers) is not a fair comparison.
I hardly know how to answer his eighth paragraph, where he endeavours to make capital out of the fact that my name is not in the new edition of “Slater’s Directory,” but I should like to inform him that I have no particular desire to publish my name in every advertising spot on the face of the earth, but if he wishes to communicate with me privately he has nothing whatever to do but write my name correctly, and address the envelope as below, because I am sufficiently well-known for such letters to reach their destination.   
We of the middle and upper class are too apt to treat with indifference and contempt the sufferings of those who create our wealth, but I flatter myself that my experience short though it may have been, has been sufficient to make me renounce once and for all the class prejudice which is so prevalent amongst the well-to-do portion of society.
 
With regard to the last letter, that of “C.A. Johnstone,” who apparently is in such circumstances as to be able to command the services of any doctor at any time, owing to his position, I would recommend to his careful perusal and thought the latter portion of my reply to “A.H. Colles.”
 
Now for my comments, which will necessarily be brief, owing to the compulsory length of my reply to controversial matter.   
To my mind the case appears as follows: It is a cold winter’s morning.    A doctor is suddenly aroused out of his sleep by a loud knocking at his door.    Instead of seeing who the visitor is he waits to see if he will depart, but at last he is compelled to attend at the door, and finds that a poor man (who cannot pay his fee until he receives his wage) wishes the doctor to attend his wife, who is taken ill in childbirth.    He, taking into consideration (in my opinion) the condition of the weather, refuses to go, and excuses himself on the ground that the man cannot pay him at once. The poor woman dies, the man is almost distracted with grief, an inquest is held, and the doctor censured.    That is practically the case in a nutshell.   
Now, had it been “C.A. Johnstone” instead of Mr. J. Jodrell who had awakened him, I have no doubt he would have attended without a murmur, therefore I contend that some satisfaction other than that which he has given in his letter is required, and I hope he will see the justice of the demand.    I should like to comment further on the matter, but consideration for your space forbid, and I sincerely hope that the importance of the case will in your opinion be sufficient apology for the length of this letter.
 
Yours &c,
 
archibald vicar
Prestwich, 19th March 1888.
R. Stephenson-Smythe  
#46 Posted : 05 March 2011 10:42:40(UTC)
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Two more have seen fit to put pen to paper and sent their letters to the High Peak News.
 
Here they are:
 
To the Editor
 
Sir,
In the High Peak News of March 17th appears a letter from A.H. Colles, and from the beginning to the end of the one-sided epistle the Doctor who told the poor man Jodrell “they kept doctors at Chapel-en-le-Frith Workhouse for such men as him” is sheltered.   
But the cloak is a perforated one.   
If Dr Allan had lived and “done hard work” at Whaley Bridge for at least 114 years it would not have justified him as a parish doctor in refusing to listen to the appeal of Jodrell.    The Deputy-Coroner “stated his case” as he thought proper, and did not express himself as the Coroner would have done, if I am not, after carefully reading the account of the inquest which W.H. Colles thinks “unique,” mistaken. There are some wonderful paraphrases in that letter.    “As if he were the vilest monster.”   
Good words, and applicable, think I, as one who does not claim to be included in W.H. Colles’ category of “sensible persons.”  Who does he mean, or what does he mean, by “who is in the least degree removed from the state that is best described as maudlin”!    Is it Jodrell?    If so he, poor chap, has had more than enough to cause him to be in such a condition.   Is it the Deputy-Coroner? Or the “at least 14 years’ hard worked doctor,” or W.H. Colles?   I should like to know. It is, however, so stated in the letter as to be an unknown quantity, so I leave it to those who have “the most knowledge of doctors and their troubles, but most deeply sympathise with Jodrell” for all that.
I have not extended this letter to any great length and therefore ask but to be excused for not putting my name to it; I am not the only earner of 17s 10d a-week who might get into difficulties were his name handed about in newspapers.
 
Yours &c,
 
quack
High Street, Whaley Bridge, March 21st.    
 
 
 
 
High Peak News
 
31 March 1888
 
the sudden death of a woman at whaley bridge
 
To the Editor
 
Sir,
With your permission I would like to ask the writers of the numerous letters that have been inserted in the High Peak News what their object is.    One section of them pitches into Dr Allan just as mercilessly as though he were guilty of something very atrocious – I don’t say he is, and I don’t say he is not – and the other section stand up in his defence, and parry with a good deal of skill all the many thrusts made.    The doctor did act a bit thoughtlessly there is no doubt, and he has had dubbing enough for it, but what the dickens is the use of carrying the war to the knife as is being done.   
Jodrell must feel satisfied at the rating.   
At the inquest plain facts, and unvarnished I should say, came out, and all the controversial matter we have seen in print has adduced nothing beyond a sort of grammatical analysis of whatever your correspondents think fit to put to paper.    Let another man go to Dr Allan’s any time he likes to choose, and he will receive that attention which the importance of his case calls for, you may rest assured.    Archibald Vicar’s view of the case is that the weather stopped him from turning out, and the non-production of the spade ace kept his surgical skill from displaying itself.    Here’s another view.    The doctor thought a midwife had the case in hand, and as she had successfully performed many similar operations (not “manipulative”), did not suppose but that she would do this.
                 
Yours &c,
 
unbiassed
 
Horwich End                                                 
Mar. 27th 1888.
 
 
R. Stephenson-Smythe  
#47 Posted : 08 March 2011 15:19:23(UTC)
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Well, Archibald Vicar is back in the papers and this time he’s having another go at Doctor Allan and Mr. Colles. What’s more he’s been to WB to unearth more evidence about the good Doctor and he’s prepared to take it to Court. And Colles has been writing to him privately and he is going to make those letters public.
Well I never did!
 
 
 
 
High Peak News
 
7th April 1888
 
the sudden death of a woman at whaley bridge
 
To the Editor
 
Sir, -- I am very much surprised to find that Dr Allan has not endeavoured to refute the charges which I made against him in your issue of the 24th March, but seems to consider that his position will be better defended if left to the subtilty of friends and relations.    If his allies are willing to call a public meeting in accordance with the suggestion of your correspondent “Observer,” (I don’t have this article) with a view to clearing him from the charges which have been made against him, I am willing to attend the same meeting to substantiate the accusations which I have made, for
                                    I dare do all that may become a man,
                                    Who dares do more is none. 
and I feel quite confident that I should be able to vindicate my position in the opinion of the meeting against the combined efforts of my three opponents, as
                                    Thrice armed is he who hath his quarrel just.
It is rather astonishing also that his specious defender, who sprang into the controversy with the evident desire to make everybody think he was a descendant of the “Anarchy,” on whose brow Shelly saw inscribed the following words:--
                                    I am God, and King, and Law,
has not had the manliness to either adhere to his position or to withdraw the insinuations which he has made, but trusts rather to surreptitious means to relieve his indignation.
“A.H. Colles” informs us that he can speak from long experience of Dr Allan’s kindness, and states as a positive fact that only once in fourteen years has he received his fee before his work was done.    In the same letter he proffered to give a day with me to make enquiries into the matter, but he has been so long in making his appointment that I went over to Whaley Bridge to make enquiries for myself, the result of which I intend to give below.
Before dealing with the case itself, I feel compelled to mention an incident which took place on the evening of the 24th ultimo at the “Tableaux Vivante,” arranged by a lady, who resides in the district, in aid of the Restoration Fund of a church.    I regret to say that Mr. Colles, who in his capacity as chairman of the meeting, had some selections from Shakespeare to read, used the opportunity as a means of casting a reflection on his opponents by quoting from a play of “Othello” the words of Iago:
            Who steals my purse, steals trash ; ‘tis something, nothing,
            ‘Twas mine, ‘tis his, and has been slave to thousands ;
            But he that filches from me my good name,
Robs me of that which not enriches him,
And makes me poor indeed.
Though, as the old adage says, “Birds of a feather flock together,” I am happy to think that his remarks met with the approval of only some half-dozen of those who were present, and I have no doubt he will have received encouragement from that quarter, and, in the words of the joyful hymn, “There will be no parting there,” but I know from experience that it is an easy matter for would-be aristocrats to procure a few suckling sycophants to chant their praises, whatever may be the depth to which their actions have descended.    His action would be entirely justifiable, seeing that he himself has not taken the trouble to ascertain the facts of the case he has been writing about.    I am always careful in controversies of any description of the language I use, but when a man implies in a meeting where he cannot be answered that I and others wish to damage his character, I shall treat him as a calumniator and a villain, nor shall any protection shelter him from the treatment which he deserves.    I shall on such an occasion without scruple trample upon all those forms with which wealth and dignity entrench themselves, nor shall anything but age restrain my resentment; age which always brings with it one privilege, that of being insolent and supercilious without punishment.    I will not sit unconcerned while my liberty is invaded, nor look in silence on public calumny.    I will exert my endeavours at whatever hazard to repel the aggressor, and wring from him a full and complete apology.
It is past my comprehension where “A.H. Colles” went in search of information when after his search and his long residence in Whaley Bridge he was only able to find this one case of negligence on the part of Dr Allan.    I am afraid he is like one of those of whom we are told they are deaf because they will not hear, or blind because they will not see, and that he was determined to be both deaf and blind when he went on his round seeking for the truth.    It seems rather strange that I, a comparative stranger to the place, should be able in one afternoon to collect more information than “A.H. Colles” had been able to collect in fourteen years.    Should it be necessary I shall be prepared at a future date to have the evidence of my informants placed in a court of law and attested to on oath.    Having then shown the sincerity of my espousal of the case by my desire to obtain the truth, and having by enquiry disproved the assertions of “A.H. Colles”, I now call upon Dr Allan to give some explanation of his conduct, and upon “A.H. Colles” to withdraw the language which he has used and to apologise for it.    Should he still disdain to move in the manner I have indicated it will be necessary for me, however regrettable, to take other means to attain the desired result; and should he not reply to this letter in your next issue, as a preliminary step to those means above mentioned, I shall publish the private correspondence between “A.H. Colles” and myself.      Yours &c,
           
archibald vicar.
 
Prestwich, 3rd April 1888.
 
 
buggyite  
#48 Posted : 08 March 2011 16:30:48(UTC)
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Crikey!

Are we heading for a fight to the death at the Mechanics Institute between Archibald Vicar and his quotation-mark-surrounded opponent "A H Colles"?

I got the impression that Archibald was implying that "A H Colles" is a pseudonym with his use of quotation marks, but then he refers to him chairing a church meeting.

I cannot wait for you to add to this story!

Buggyite
I am a yellow factioner!
G. Jackson  
#49 Posted : 08 March 2011 17:19:07(UTC)
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A fight?  Nay, nay. A duel must ensue. I think Mr. Vicar is really William Shakespeare.

R. Stephenson-Smythe  
#50 Posted : 09 March 2011 14:59:58(UTC)
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Don’t be so ridiculous.
 
R. S-S
R. Stephenson-Smythe  
#51 Posted : 10 March 2011 17:45:18(UTC)
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High Peak News
 
21 April 1888
 
sudden death of a woman at whaley Bridge
 
To the Editor
 
Sir,
 
If I had wished to reply to the attack made upon me in your issue of the 7th inst. by “A. Vicar” I could not have done so last week, as I was under the ban of a fearful (?) threat, which the sapient “A. Vicar,” boy-like held over my head.
He threatened that unless I replied to his letter he would publish some correspondence that had passed between us.    This didn’t frighten me very much; and being anxious that the public should see how superlatively ridiculous such a threat was, I purposely refrained from replying, hoping and expecting that the said correspondence will appear in the same issue as this, for has not “A. Vicar” said “I shall publish the private correspondence.”   
But don’t be alarmed, dear readers. You may safely read it; there is nothing shocking in it, no bad language, nothing half so bad as in “A. Vicar’s” last letter; in fact, except that he dates from “The Country Forum” and talks of his friends in the House of Commons, there is nothing even to laugh at, so why the correspondence is to be published I can’t tell.
 When my former letter was written it was penned most temperately and to the point.    I have just read it over, and find that except for the word “maudlin,” which surely is not a very savage word, and the word “philanthropist,” which I now apologise for using in connection with “A. Vicar’s” name, there is not a single word that even a young lady or an ordinary sensitive boy could cavil at.   The case rested more on a plain statement of it than upon any strong language; and from all that comes to my ears the great majority of the Whaley Bridge people are satisfied that nothing more is required to be said in further vindication of the subject of that letter.
“A. Vicar” strongly objects to my quotation about robbing men of their good names; but before this is finished “A. Vicar” will be convicted by himself of being a robber of the meanest kind.  “A. Vicar” quotes, in reference to himself, “I dare do all,” &c., but it shall be left to those who know the remainder of the quotation, who have read “A. Vicar’s” last letter, and who see his robbery, plagiarism, or whatever you like to call it, in this, to say whether he has not done more than “may become a man,” an, as a logical consequence, “is none.”
From his last letter I am inclined to think “A. Vicar” only a boy, perhaps a youth.    Now, don’t let this vex “A. Vicar,” for youth is no disgrace, if it be found in the paths of innocence.  My reason for judging him a “simple youth” is that he speaks of me as a very old man, for he goes on “Nor shall anything but age restrain my resentment.”    I ought to be glad my appearance misled “A. Vicar” as so my age; for has it not saved me from his resentment?
“A. Vicar” describes me as one “who sprang into the controversy with the evident desire to make everybody think he was a descendant of the ‘Anarchy.’ “    Now, could a sensible person ever suppose for one moment that anyone would wish to be thought a descendant of the “Anarchy”?    Why would they?
It would be quite out of reason to expect to be allowed to take up your valuable space by going seriatim over every line of “A. Vicar’s” letter, though every line is a joke in some form; but please let me cull a few of the expressions he uses in respect of me and my friends for writing the letter which I refer to at the beginning of this.
“Specious defender,” --- (will “A. Vicar” kindly look up his dictionary and see what “specious” means, and then explain how it applies?) – “would-be aristocrats,” “suckling sycophants,” “calumniator,” “villain,” “wealth and dignity,” “insolent,” “supercilious,” “aggressor.”    Now, I would have forgiven “A. Vicar” the “suckling sycophant,” &c., if he had only spared me the bitter irony of connecting my name with “wealth and dignity.”    Why, everybody at Whaley Bridge knows how lamentably deficient I am of the former and my writing this quite proves my want of the latter.
If “A. Vicar” will only apologise for ironically alluding to my “wealth and dignity,” and will retract the words “would-be aristocrat,” I really will forgive him.    Perhaps he is already punished too much, for his mental anguish must have been great, or how could he write “I will not sit unconcerned while my liberty is invaded?”    Who, in the name of fortune, has threatened to invade his liberty? Or who ever wanted to stop him exerting his “endeavour, at whatever hazard, to repel the aggressor?”    What is the hazard and who is the aggressor?
“A. Vicar” goes on – “Should it be necessary, I shall be prepared at a future date to have the evidence of my informants placed in a court of law and attested on oath.”    Who is going to law, and for what?    Further on comes, “Having, then, shown the sincerity of my espousal of the case by my desire to obtain the truth ---------“and, as if he had not yet reached the height of his absurdity, he says “Should he (A.H. Colles) still disdain (prave ‘ords) to move in the manner I have indicated, it will be necessary for me , however regrettable (to whom?) to take other means to attain the desired ends; and should he not reply to this letter in your next issue, as a preliminary step to those means I shall publish the private correspondence between A.H. Colles and myself.”    Well, I have not disdained at my own convenience to “answer a fool according to his folly;” and the old proverb, that “A man that driveth an ass must have a strong stick,” is my excuse for so pointedly calling attention to the nonsense contained in “A. Vicar’s” letter, and to which I have not done half justice.
I must not forget that “A. Vicar” is to be proved a robber.    Dr Johnson, speaking of a man who was using “tall” words, described him as one who has been to a “feast of languages and stolen the scraps.”    Now Dr Johnson practically called that man a thief, but if the said man had not only stolen the language, but also the ideas of a great man, and prostituted them both, what would Dr Johnson have called him?    But it does not much matter what Dr Johnson would have called him; the question is – What will the Whaley Bridge people call such a person?    But that there may be no mistake as to “A. Vicar” having committed a robbery, please allow me to put in two columns what “A. Vicar” wrote in his last letter, and what Pitt spoke in reply to Walpole.
 
what “A. Vicar” wrote                                                        What pitt said
I am always careful in                                        If any man shall, by charg-
controversies of any descrip-                            ing me with theatrical be-         
tion of the language I use,                                              haviour imply that I utter
but when a man implies                                                 any sentiment but my own,
in a meeting where he can-                                I shall treat him as a calum-
not be answered that I and                                            niator and a villain;   nor
others wish to damage his                                shall any protection shelter
character, I shall treat him                                 him from the treatment
as a calumniator and a vil-                                 which he deserves.   I shall
lain, nor shall any protec-                                              on such an occasion, with-
tion shelter him from the                                                out scruple, trample upon
treatment which he de-                                      all these forms, with which
serves.   I shall on such an                                             wealth and dignity entrench
occasion without scruple                                               themselves;   nor shall any-
trample upon all those                                       thing but age restrain my
forms with which wealth                                                resentment – age which al-
and dignity entrench them-                                ways brings one privilege –
selves, nor shall anything                                               that of being insolent and
but age restrain my resent-                                supercilious without punish-
ment;   age which always                                               ment.   I will not sit uncon-
brings with it one privi-                                      cerned while my liberty
lege, that of being insolent                                 invaded, nor look in silence
and supercilious without                                                upon public robbery.   I will
punishment.   I will not sit                                  exert my endeavours at
unconcerned while my                                       whatever hazard to repel
liberty is invaded, nor                                       the aggressor, and drag the
look in silence on public                                                thief to justice, what power
calumny.   I will exert my                                               soever may protect the vil-
endeavours at whatever                                                lainy, and whoever may par-
hazard to repel the aggres-                                take of the plunder. --- See
sor, and wring from him a                                  “Lewis’s Penny Readings,”
full and complete apology.                                             Page 17.
 
Just fancy even a schoolboy attempting to pass off the words of Pitt as his own, and trying to apply them to a case to which they are not applicable – it must have been Pitt’s strong language that tempted him.    Will “A. Vicar” blush when he sees the above or not?    I cannot tell, not knowing him; but if he does not, why then any further writing would be wasted on him.
Please notice that “A. Vicar” would pose as a philanthropist who has a mission.    Let him remember the fable of the frog and the ox, and the untimely fate of the frog.
I would also advise “A. Vicar” not to copy that prince of would-be philanthropists, Don Quixote, or he may find he is attacking a windmill now and then, and share Don Quixote’s discomfiture.
I don’t for a moment think this letter will have any effect on “A. Vicar,” nor do I for a moment think he won’t reply, and no doubt “villain, “suckling sycophants,” &c., &c., will be mild language to what will appear in the next, and I shall look forward to it with considerable interest, for I know that young blood as a rule does not weigh its words.
“A. Vicar” writes, “I am always careful in controversies of any description of the language I use.”    You have had specimens of the guarded language he uses towards a humble individual like myself who has only done what I believe every decent person in Whaley Bridge will give me credit for, i.e., sticking up for a friend, who was disgracefully attacked. (Ah, so they were friends then)
If “A. Vicar” gets up a public meeting, we shall then know who “we of the middle and upper class” are, and as, of course, his friends will be there, we shall be able to identify “Observer,” “Verax,” and Company, (I don’t have copies of these articles) and perhaps have a word to say to them.    But who would condescend to notice the comments of one who dare write on a case wherein a gentleman’s name is publicly mentioned and attempted to be damaged, and yet dare not sign his own.    I venture to quote that such a man “is fit for treasons, stratagems, and spoils; let no such man be trusted.”
I hope, Mr. Editor, you will not consider I have infringed the rules that may be called Parliamentary.    If the word “robber” is rather strong, though the stolen goods are before your eyes, I will retract it and say “A. Vicar” merely “appropriates” without leave or acknowledgment.   
 
Yours &c,  
A.H. Colles
 
1, Belmont, Higher Broughton, Manchester,
                        April 17th 1888.
 
R. Stephenson-Smythe  
#52 Posted : 15 March 2011 16:07:34(UTC)
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To the Editor
 
Sir,
As I informed your readers in your issue of the 7th April 1888, that unless Mr. Colles replied to my charges or apologised for the statements which he had made I would publish the private correspondence between “A.H. Colles” and myself I feel in duty bound to do so seeing that he has not written                         
                                                [first copy.]
                                    1, Belmont, Higher Broughton,
                                                            March 18th 1888.
 
Mr Archibald Vicar, Prestwich.
 
Sir,
Might I venture to ask you for a more definite address than the above, so that I might wait upon you respecting the case at Whaley Bridge, because if it can be proved that you have written without knowing all the circumstances I trust you will be anxious to write another letter to the papers saying so.                                                                                             Yours obediently,
                                                                                                            a.h. colles
 
Believing this was written by a gentleman who desired to have the whole circumstances elucidated, I did not trouble to keep a copy of my first reply to him, but it ran somewhat as follows:
 
                                                                                                Prestwich, 20th March 1888.
Mr. A. H. Colles, 1, Belmont, Higher Broughton.
 
Sir,
Please excuse delay in answer to yours of the 18th inst.; but owing to my early departure from home and my late return in the evening, I did not receive your letter until 11.45 p.m.    It would be useless for me to give you my private address, because, owing to my spare time being placed at the disposal of four associations, I am never at home, save early in the morning and late at night; but if you desire to make an appointment anywhere in town, I will be quite willing to meet you, and shall be glad, in order to facilitate business, if you would address your next communication to me at the County Forum, Market Street, Manchester, as I have made arrangements for all my letters and telegrams to be addressed there.    I have no hesitation in informing you that my first letter was written on the report of the inquest in the High Peak News; but I should also like to inform you that the letter written by Dr Allan in the same issue as mine places that gentlemen in an awkward and unenviable position.   ----       Sincerely yours,
archibald vicar.
 
                                                [second copy]
                        1, Belmont, Higher Broughton, March 20th 1888.
            Mr. A. Vicar, the County Forum.
 
Sir,
I am in receipt of your reply to mine.   
My object in writing to the papers and to you was to show how different the real case was from that which had been stated; and now that you are aware that Dr Allan is not the hard-hearted man he was represented to be, and that instead of never going out without his fee he had never once received his fee before going out, It trust you will not consider it asking too much if I beg you to write to the papers saying you regretted you had made your remarks on an exparte statement.   
Yours truly,
a.h. colles.
 
After receiving the above letter I considered that it would be necessary, in case of further proceedings, to keep a copy of my other letters; so that my next replies are exact copies of what I wrote to Mr. Colles.
                                                [second reply]
                        The County Forum, Market Street, Manchester.
                                    22nd March 1888.
            Mr. A.H. Colles, 1, Belmont, Higher Broughton.
 
Sir,
Owing to my having to address a public meeting at Blackburn yesterday evening, I did not receive yours until this morning, and I must say I am really surprised at the request you make.    I had written a letter to the paper on Monday in reply to those which appeared in the issue of last Saturday because I failed to see that Dr Allan could be exonerated from all the blame by what those letters contained; in fact I had made preparation for supplying a few of my friends in the House of Commons with the details in order that an official enquiry into the matter might be made, but on receipt of yours of the 18th I thought I would wait to see what course events would take.    Something more definite will have to be supplied before I consider myself mistaken in the course adopted.
Sincerely yours,
archibald vicar.
 
                                                [third copy]
                        1, Belmont, Higher Broughton, March 22nd 1888.
            Mr. A. Vicar.
Sir,
Yours to hand.   
On reply, your letter to the papers led me to think your great idea was to couch your lance against all who were ill-used.    If you have read my letter to the papers, and believed it, I should have thought you would have hastened to express your regret at the foul charges leveled at Dr Allan.   
Pray do not trouble to reply to this.   
Yours, &c,
a.h. colles.
 
                                                [third reply]
                        County Forum, Market Street, Manchester.
 
            Mr A.H. Colles.                                              23rd March 1888.
Sir, 
My idea was to “couch my lance against all who were ill-used,” but here is a clear case of neglect of duty, and in my opinion, Dr Allan is the person to express regret, or disprove the charges made against him.    He has yet done neither, but has endeavored to excuse his non-attendance on the grounds that he would have had to bear the responsibility; but still he would have gone had the guinea been paid, so that until he makes some further explanation I do not consider that I ought to apologize.    That is what I infer you wish me to do.    It is not customary for me to allow anyone to arrogate to themselves the right to dictate to me the line of action I should pursue in such matters as this under discussion, and I am quite certain that I am not going to depart from my usual course of procedure in order to satisfy the overweening vanity of any self -appointed and partial judge.    Should it be necessary in the further development of the case I shall reserve to myself the right to publish this correspondence.      Yours sincerely,
archibald vicar
 
I hope you will be able to publish the above, as I consider it necessary to clear me from any impression of unfairness, and in the interest of the case itself, seeing that none of the principal defendants move in any direction.   
Yours, &c,                                          
archibald vicar.
Prestwich, 16th April 1888.
 
 
Lady Madonna  
#53 Posted : 16 March 2011 02:24:27(UTC)
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Hi RSS, I was so interested in this thread that i thought i would try to find out more about Archibald Vickers but having searched the census records have only come with 2 at that time & 1 was a coal miner in Scotland so have discounted him, the other was a drappers assistant and travelling salesman born in Bury 1891 living in Newcastle & in 1901 living in Middlesex so he doesn't seem the right one either, he obviousley did exist but how & where can l find him & who is he? Along with Mrs C I would like to thank-you for all the hard work you are putting into this, I would also appreciate some illumination on the elsusive Archibald even if it is of the Gas-light variety!
Thanks in anticipation Lady M.
R. Stephenson-Smythe  
#54 Posted : 16 March 2011 15:20:12(UTC)
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Hello M’Lady,
 
Thank you for your kind comments with regards to this thread.
 
There is quite a bit more to go yet including reports of Archibald Vicar addressing a public meeting in Whaley Bridge and the greeting he gets from the locals.
I too have searched in vain for any further information on Archie but he did exist; whether he used a pseudonym is up to you to decide.
 
You need to remember the time period involved in this story which is late 1800’s and, of course, the village would have had a sort of division between the rulers and the working classes.
The working classes did not think that they deserved anything more than hard work, slave wages, starvation, off to the workhouse and an early death.
 
To some extent this is highlighted in this tale and completely exposed in Tressell’s novel: The Ragged Trousered Philanthropist.
Do you seriously think that Doctor Hector Allan would have refused to attend the wife of Colonel Hall, Mr. Colles, Cotton Jodrell, Captain Stamper or the like?
No they had power and money; he would have been there in a flash and there would have been no up-front sovereign discussion.
But Jonathan Jodrell was a poor, working man and there were plenty of them about; hardly even worth getting out of bed for.
 
Just before I finish the thread I’ll copy a small discussion from TRTP for you that is pertinent to the situation.
 
Thank you for reading the topic.
 
R. S-S
 
R. Stephenson-Smythe  
#55 Posted : 17 March 2011 17:52:11(UTC)
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Well Archie is like a dog with a bone on this one and here he is back in the paper having another go at Mr. Colles and announcing his forthcoming lecture at Whaley Bridge. Blimey.
 
 
 
the sudden death of a woman at whaley bridge
 
To the Editor
 
Sir,
It appears that my letter of the 7th inst. has been the means of “drawing the badger,” though he has taken a fortnight to prepare his epistle, and I must congratulate A.H. Colles” upon the ingenious manner in which he has distorted the composition of it, but would wish to remind him that ridicule is not argument, and that his attempt to make farce out of a tragedy does not reflect much credit upon him.
He has carefully avoided any reference to the case under discussion, but has evidently thought that he might be able to divert attention from it by a composition which will entitle him to be recognised as a second “master of flouts and gibes and sneers.” 
With reference to his apology for using philanthropist in connection with my name there is no necessity for it, as I repudiate the definition which is generally understood of the word, for in my opinion charity, which is synonymous with philanthropy in the eyes of many people’ is twice cursed; it curseth him that gives and him that takes.
As for my plagiarism from Pitt, according to a rough copy of my Mss, which I have by me, the paragraph commences as follows: “But for fear of using stronger language, I will apply, with a little alteration, Pitt’s reply to Walpole for the defence,” &c.
With regard to the query, “Who is going to the law, and what for?” that is a question which I think “A.H. Colles” knows more about than I do, seeing that some of his friends went to a solicitor in Stockport for advice.
He states that he has “not disdained to answer a fool according to his folly;” but in the opinion of some persons “all wise men are fools,” so in that case I take it that he means to compliment me on my wisdom, though I would remind him of a passage in the Bible, which book I hope he believes in, “whosoever shall say thou fool shall be in danger of hell fire.”
“A.H. Colles” has no need to be afraid that calling me a boy will vex me, but as for getting up a meeting on the subject, it lies with Dr Allan and company to do that to clear themselves from blame.
It will be my pleasure to address a meeting in Whaley Bridge before another month is gone, although on an entirely different subject, but seeing that I do not know “Observer,” “Verax,” and company, I cannot invite them privately to attend.    Owing to the remarks in “A.H. Colles” letter, I will divert from my original intention and speak on this subject for about ten or fifteen minutes, and I give a cordial invitation to “A.H. Colles,” “C.E. Johnstone,” “Dr Allan,” “Verax,” “N,” “Observer,” and last, but not least, “Mr. J.Butterworth,” of Throstledale , who did sign his name, and whose letter “A.H. Colles” has not had the manliness to reply to, to attend the meeting, and refute or uphold my statements.   
My reason for publishing the private correspondence was to show that my opponents were anxious to stop the controversy by secret means, if possible, and my contention is that the content of those letters justifies the course I have taken, and the language I have used.    
 
Yours &c.,
 
 
archibald vicar                   24th April 1888.
 
 
R. Stephenson-Smythe  
#56 Posted : 23 March 2011 16:00:46(UTC)
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To the Editor
 
Sir,
 
This matter evidently affords Mr. Colles much fun and amusement.    I was not surprised to find that in his letter of last week he carefully avoided some of the statements he had previously made and which I contradicted in my first letter.    Nor was I unprepared for the flippant and frivolous tone of his letter, because, as I had said, I did not believe that he took any interest in poor Jodrell’s case except so far as to advertise his “friend” Dr Allan.    I was, however, a little surprised to find that after he had once made his appearance in public and made important statements and contradictions he should make an attempt to shelve the whole thing and smother the questions by requesting (privately) what I take to be nothing more or less than a testimonial as to character and previous good conduct, and I think that Mr. Vicar must have been surprised when he received those pleading communications.    The case may be treated as a farce by Mr. Colles, but it is a very serious matter for the people of Whaley Bridge, for in cases of emergency one cannot be satisfied to have to send three of four miles for a doctor.
I joined this correspondence thinking that some good might come of it, but seeing that this is not likely and that it is fast becoming a mere contest in letter writing between Mr. Colles and Mr. A. Vicar, I beg to withdraw from it.    Before doing so I suggest that a public meeting be called, and a resolution submitted to the meeting that Mr. Egerton or Major Sidebottom, representing the district in the House of Commons, draw the attention of the Home Secretary to the case with a view to an amendment of the law.
The feeling of the meeting would at once indicate the true position of affairs, and would put an end to the unseemly correspondence now going on upon so painful a tragedy.
Thanking you, sir, for your courtesy on this occasion, and previously.
  
Yours &c,
 
joseph e. butterworth
Throstledale, Whaley Bridge    April 25th 1888.
 
 
 
Mr Archibald Vicar, of Prestwich, will give a lecture at Whaley Bridge on May 12th, under the auspices of the Social Democratic Federation.   
The subject of this notice needs no introduction to Whaley Bridge people.   
It is said a few questions will be asked other than what may relate to Social Democracy.
 
 
R. Stephenson-Smythe  
#57 Posted : 06 April 2011 15:17:06(UTC)
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High Peak News
 
5 May 1888
 
the sad death of a woman
 
To the Editor
 
Sir,
A. Vicar in his last letter metaphorically rubs his hands and says he has succeeded in “drawing the Badger” (that is myself.)    Now, what I little know of badger-drawing is that cruel men set on dogs to worry an inoffensive animal.    I can’t say who the cruel men are that set on the dog, but that A. Vicar is the dog is witnessed by his own remark, and he must be satisfied if he gets a dog’s treatment, and if I “badger” him he can’t complain.
A Vicar says: “He (A.H. Colles) has carefully avoided any reference to the case under discussion.”    But to prove that A. Vicar has not one particle of respect for the truth, but makes assertions trusting people will believe him.    I quote the following from my letter referred to: “The case rested more on a plain statement of it than upon any strong language; and from all that comes to my ears the great majority of the Whaley Bridge people are satisfied that nothing more is required to be said in further vindication of the subject of that letter.
A. Vicar goes further, and says philanthropy and charity are synonymous, and that they are “twice cursed.”    No doubt he will try to prove it when he lectures on “Social Democracy.”    From A. Vicar’s modest announcement of the lecture, I gather he is going to make some remarks anent the question that is so agitating his virtuous mind.
I think I have said in a former letter that if a meeting be called I should try to attend, but, of course, that supposes that the meeting is to be held in a respectable public room; say the Mechanics’ Institute or the Band of Hope Hall – and that there be a responsible chairman, and that we have not to sit whilst A. Vicar preaches on “Social Democracy,” or any other subject but the one by which he introduced himself to Whaley Bridge.
For fear A. Vicar should plead want of funds as an excuse for not getting a good room, I now consent to pay for the use of the room for the evening, on the conditions referred to above, and I shall consider Mr. Butterworth a most suitable chairman.
When I say that A. Vicar is not truthful I do not refer to his excuse about robbing Pitt of his words and ideas, because I can’t prove that his excuse is false, but I do convict him of untruthfulness in references to my letter.
No friends of mine that I know of have consulted a solicitor in this case, and I should have laughed at them if they had told me they were doing so.    I thought it was all the other side that were talking about law.
If I – “the badger” – let off A. Vicar – “the dog” – from any more “badgering,” it is not because he had not written more foolish things than I have referred to, but simply because I believe with my friends (the suckling sycophants, as A. Vicar so pleasingly calls them) that to reason with an individual who, without any justification – and I defy anyone to prove there was justification – calls a correspondent a villain, a calumniator, &c., &c., (borrowed words, I admit, though equally as malicious as if he had put the sentences together himself,) is a waste of good ink and your valuable paper.
May I ask, why will gentlemen try to draw badgers – mind, I don’t say A. Vicar is a gentlemen – and I make this disclaimer, for if I did not he might think it necessary to say he objects to being called a gentleman, as he did to being called a philanthropist.
Why should Mr. Butterworth, I regret that it is to him I am now bound to refer, wish to “draw” me?    However, he has succeeded, for after his rude and inconsiderate attack upon me, twice repeated, and without any provocation from me, I do not see how I can forbear from replying, for if I do strangers might think I was afraid to answer him, or had not a good reply.
Mr. Butterworth says he was not surprised to find I carefully avoided statements which I had previously made.    I maintain that my first letter, written quite temperately and without malice, was a good and sufficient answer to the case that had been made so much of, and I do not see why Mr. Butterworth should expect me to repeat statements that have not been disproved.    Mr. Butterworth, contradicting me with a simple assertion of his own, is not disproving what I have asserted.    I say again no word I wrote has been disproved, and, therefore, as I have stated in a previous part of this letter, I did not avoid anything, but confirmed all I had previously written.
If I have written flippantly, as Mr. Butterworth says, of A. Vicar, it has been because of A. Vicar’s foolishness, as instanced by his use of bad language, threats, &c.
Mr. Butterworth says in his first letter I tried to make Jodrell’s evidence into a tissue of lies.    What I did say was: “I should deeply grieve to say one word that should add another pang to what Jodrell must have felt at the loss of his wife, and therefore I will merely trust that what he said before the deputy-coroner he thought was true;” and surely Mr. Butterworth must see the great difference between suggesting that what a man said he had done under great excitement he might be mistaken about and alleging that what he did say was a tissue of falsehoods.    If I could possibly think that Mr. Butterworth saw no difference, I should not proceed further with this letter, but I have a better opinion of that gentleman than to think it for a moment.
Mr. Butterworth says : “Nor was I unprepared for the flippant and frivolous tone of his letters, because, as I have said, I did not believe that he took any interest in poor Jodrell’s case except so far as to advertise his “friend.”
Now I could have almost believed that A. Vicar had written that sentence, because it is grossly unjustifiable.    On what grounds did Mr. Butterworth believe that I took no interest in Jodrell’s case, except for the reason he specifies?    With all diffidence I would say I took considerable trouble to enquire into the case, and, unless I had done so, I, living away from Whaley, could not have written the letter I did.
I am trying to treat Mr. Butterworth temperately, but would it not be a most natural weakness if when I read the following I had replied in the same spirit : “I was, however a little surprised to find that after he had once made . . . . . important statements and contradictions he should make an attempt to shelve, ‘&c., &c.,’ by requesting (privately) what I take to be nothing more or less than a testimonial?” &c., &c. ; and “I think Mr Vicar must have been surprised when he received those pleading communications?”    Those that have read the “communications” will, I feel sure, wonder where the “pleading” comes in.    But if I could have saved A. Vicar from exposing himself and Mr. Butterworth from taking up a position which I regret he did, I would have pleaded much harder.
Mr. Butterworth wishes for a meeting at Whaley Bridge, and that a resolution should be passed “with a view to an amendment of the law.”    Without treating Mr. Butterworth’s words too lightly, might I ask him what law?    If he means that he wants a law added to the statute book, how would the following resolution do?  
“That this meeting desires a law may be passed compelling all doctors to attend every case to which they may be called, independent of time, hour, or distance, and irrespective of any fact that the person calling them gave them notice or not, although it might be customary for well-regulated persons to do so; and, further, that doctors shall not consider whether they can do any good or not, or take into consideration that they know all the good they can do will be to sign a certificate, and the fact, whether taught by previous experience or not, that they will or will not be paid must not influence them in the slightest degree.”    I don’t think the above is at all an unfair statement of what might be expected to be put, that is judging from the letters that have appeared.    Of course a resolution that cloth agents should send shirtings to clothe the poor, the needy, and distressed of our back slums, and that lint, physic, &c., should be supplied to whomever ask for them, irrespective of the chance of the supplier being paid, would be left over to a later meeting.
Under such laws of course doctors and cloth agents would be compensated by being made to a certain extent monopolists like publicans.    The idea does not recommend itself to me.
There is one other remark of Mr. Butterworth’s I feel I should be doing an injustice to the place where I lived so long, if I did not refer to.   
A. Vicar merely attacked me and two or three others. But Mr. Butterworth, not satisfied with such a “small bag” as that, fires away at the whole village, for cannot the great majority of the people of Whaley be included in the words, “working classes”?    He says, “I know from experience that the working classes of Whaley Bridge are the most apathetic people under the sun, and would not lift a finger in defence of their neighbour.”    May I ask were they apathetic when they built their Temperance Hall, or their Wesleyan Chapel, or when they built their Mechanics’ Institute?    Does the Volunteer Corps of a hundred strong indicate apathy?    Is the raising of money to restore Taxal Church a sign of apathy?   And if the above do not indicate apathy, where do you look for it?    Amongst their youths, who in their football field have, during the past season, won 14 games and lost 3.
I have only referred to public apathy, for I dare hardly mention the libel that they as individuals “would not lift a finger in defence of their neighbour” for fear after I had vented my feelings and called attention to the charge I might be told that in transcribing from the MS. a mistake had been made.    I have it on good authority, the authority of those who have lived long in the village that it would be hard to find a place where more ready and hearty sympathy with one another in sickness or distress of mind or body can be found than in Whaley Bridge.
Though Mr. Butterworth in his last letter draws the mantle of retirement around him, he must excuse my having accepted what I consider to be his challenge, and having replied, Mr. Butterworth can, if he think fit, throw off his mantle, and if he consider it worth his while to reply I would ask him to read my first letter once again, and if I made therein one assertion that a gentleman might not make in such a case I shall be most willing to apologise in your paper.  
In conclusion, allow me to express my regret that the correspondence took so unpleasant a turn.    A. Vicar’s letters, in which he used such bad language, imputed such bad motive, and quoted other words than his own, are responsible for it.
Thanking you for allowing me so much of your space.      Yours &c.,       a.h. colles
Higher Broughton, May 2nd 1888
 
            [This correspondence must now cease.   Ed. H.P.N.]
 
 
 
buggyite  
#58 Posted : 06 April 2011 15:57:03(UTC)
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Are we missing the letter from Joseph Butterworth where he accuses the working classes of Whaley Bridge to be the most apathetic people under the sun?

I'm sure I'd have remembered reading such a slur!

Buggyite
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R. Stephenson-Smythe  
#59 Posted : 07 April 2011 17:32:42(UTC)
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Sorry, Buggyite,
 
I do not have copies of all the letters to the various newspapers on this case but as for calling the good people of WB the most apathetic people under the sun well weren’t we called rustics by the reporters on the Alpine Railway?
And when you read a little more about Doctor Allan and the visit to WB by Archie shortly you might not be surprised.
 
By the way Buggyite I had almost forgotten; have you had chance to photograph the YHA pointing on the gable end of the former youth hostel in Bugsworth?
 
R. S-S
buggyite  
#60 Posted : 07 April 2011 17:40:50(UTC)
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I've not forgotten, it's just that I cannot see it.

What I will do instead is photograph the gable ends, and post the pictures here, so you can point out the elusive "YHA" logo.

Buggyite
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