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A Bridge Too Far?
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maccroader  
#61 Posted : 12 January 2011 14:54:04(UTC)
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Hello, to everyone, talking of the sewing mill bridge. Can people remember the Iron bridge which was located next to Jon goldfinchs house, I believe it was transfered and now spans the water where the reservoir overflow meets the river goyt, this happened in the late 1950s early 1960s. The work was carried out by Z & W Wade.
R. Stephenson-Smythe  
#62 Posted : 12 January 2011 15:20:42(UTC)
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Welcome to the forum maccroader,
 
The whole point of this thread was about that very bridge to which you refer.
 
If you don’t want to read the whole thread then have a look at post 20 which shows a photo of the bridge.
 
R. S-S
 
 
 
buggyite  
#63 Posted : 12 January 2011 16:59:56(UTC)
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R. S-S,

Your comments about the urinal draining into what you refer to as the "goat" got me thinking.

I'd always assumed that that particular watercourse was the feeder from Todd Brook into the canal, never really considering the Corn Mill and its water wheel. It certainly looks like it's headed for the old corn mill, looking at the maps I have available.

If it is the leat (to use the non-controversial term) for the corn mill, then where does the canal feeder run?

 

Buggyite
I am a yellow factioner!
R. Stephenson-Smythe  
#64 Posted : 12 January 2011 17:43:13(UTC)
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Good evening to you my dear friend, Buggyite,
 
I am sorry but you are off the mark with the canal feeder.
 
Perhaps we should continue this on the thread entitled, and you’ll like this:
‘Goats, Leets, Corn and Water’, which is currently on page 6 on the historical side of the forum.
 
If you want to resurrect that thread I am sure we can locate the canal/Toddbrook goat.
 
R. S-S
R. Stephenson-Smythe  
#65 Posted : 12 January 2011 17:47:38(UTC)
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As the page turned over immediately I posted this I am taking the liberty of reposting as I asked questions of Jon, The Whaley One, Shall cross and all forum contributors. I am afraid they will probably miss it otherwise.
 
“It is a long time since this topic was first aired but something relevant may have come to light.
 
Part of the deliberations by the Park Committee and The Council in 1924 concerned the placing of captured German guns in various places in the Park.
This was initially agreed upon but then it was thought it might somehow be disrespectful so where the guns ended up I have no idea. But I have got a photo of a gun arriving in Whaley in 1918. It says under the photo that the gun is on its way to the Drill Hall.
 
Now I am not an expert in guns of any sort so I shall have to rely on Jon, The Whaley One on this occasion for expert information.
 
Is it German or British and why was it on its way to the Drill Hall in 1918?
Is it possibly one of the German guns that was later in its life going to the Park for our enjoyment? Did several German guns arrive in Whaley that day? There were certainly plenty of spectators to greet them.
 
And why would we need a large British gun in Whaley in 1918? Where did it end up anyway?
 
I’m sure we shall get the usual daft answer from G Jackson which we can ignore.
 
But the 2 people I am relying on here are Jon with his munitions expertise and also Shallcross who will no doubt have the same photo and will also know a lot more about it than I do.
 
Incidentally, and I had never noticed this until today despite seeing this photo for years, there is just a glimpse of the Gents urinal at the corner of the Railway Hotel. This must have drained into the ‘goat’ that turned the water wheel of the Corn Mill on Bridge Street.
Talk about employers taking the ‘you know what’.
 
Anyway there you have it.
 
Anybody any ideas?
 
And we don’t want ideas like; “Oh it was brought in to wake The Whaley Eleven up” I know they might seem like a bunch of old fossils but they weren’t all in office in 1918.”
 
R. S-S
 
Horwich Ender  
#66 Posted : 13 January 2011 17:10:34(UTC)
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Good afternoon R. S-S

What an interesting photo.

I've no idea why a gun would be arriving in Whaley Bridge in 1918 but I do hope Cllr Jon The Whaley One or Shallcross will be able to reply as I would also be very interested to hear the answers to your questions.

With reference to your comments about the urinal at the Railway Hotel, the structure can clearly be seen in the photograph published by Shallcross in post #49 on the Local History site under the topic heading Historical Photographs of Whaley Pubs. From its location it is very probable that it did drain into the goat which turned the water wheel of the Corn Mill.

On the subject of “is it a goat or goit?” I am with you on this one R. S-S. Local water courses have always been and still are called goats.


 
RockBanker  
#67 Posted : 13 January 2011 20:51:23(UTC)
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Not a clear photo, but looks like it could be a German 7.7cm field gun ( http://www.landships.fre....com/7.7cm_fk16_info.htm ). Why was it in Whaley? Well, to the victor, the spoils.

Rock "Yellow Alert" Banker

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R. Stephenson-Smythe  
#68 Posted : 14 January 2011 15:54:58(UTC)
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Good afternoon to you two fine gentlemen, HE and RB,
 
It is good to know that the Horwich End is so splendidly represented on this forum.
 
A superb post yet again from HE and another excellent example of detective work to increase our historical knowledge of this town by RB.
 
Of course, HE, you are correct in supporting me in the matter of a man made water course which is known as a goat. The term has been used for hundreds of years and I can not understand why anybody wants to change or challenge it. Even the Madman agrees with us on this one.
 
RB your link to the German gun, I think, confirms my suspicion that we were viewing a German gun and, as you reveal, the weapon was indeed a 7.7 field gun. You only have to look at the field gun in the picture to realise that an identical one was being drawn by horses through Whaley in 1918 on its way to the Drill Hall. This is very good stuff, RB.
It is possible; indeed likely, that there was more than one gun taken to the Drill Hall that day.
 
One thing we know for certain is that The Sherwood Foresters offered the Park Committee more than one gun to display in the Park in 1924. So they must have been pretty handy.
So I imagine the guns in question were situated in the Drill Hall. However, we now know that there were objections to the proposals and the guns never arrived at the Park.
But where did they go? Hopefully not to Melland’s scrap yard.
 
Incidentally The Sherwood Foresters, which was the regiment almost everyone from around here joined during WW1, won a total of 9 Victoria Crosses during that conflict.
This was just one more than the unfortunate souls who were dragged from their condemned cell and ‘shot at dawn’. The Sherwood Foresters had eight such men who suffered that dreadful fate.
 
R. S-S
CllrJonG  
#69 Posted : 14 January 2011 17:57:46(UTC)
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Hi RSS,

Yet another extremely interesting photo !

I can confirm, based on my diverse munitions experience, that it is indeed a gun.

Unfortunately, that is as far as my knowledge takes me.

Where was the Drill hall by the way ?

I'd imagine that any high quality steel like this would probably have been taken and melted down for the second world war effort.

Cheers

Jon.

Jon Goldfinch - Forum Administrator and Town Councillor
Whaley Bridge Town Council - Fernilee Ward
cllr.jong.wbtc@googlemail.com
RockBanker  
#70 Posted : 14 January 2011 21:28:16(UTC)
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Could be a 10.5 cm Howitzer - Same carriage, different gun. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/....5_cm_Feldhaubitze_98/09 )

Cllr Jon's recycling theory sounds very plausible - I await dispatches from the RSS library with breath bated though.

P.S.

"Cormorant hunting with artillery" had no hits on Google, so that's another fine theory up in smoke

P.P.S

Could not help but add this  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ci6Cw8W0Kn0 and also recommend http://www.amazon.co.uk/Remain-Your-Son-Jack-Letters/dp/0753157802 and http://www.oucs.ox.ac.uk/ww1lit/gwa/document/9221/5151

Edited by user 14 January 2011 22:33:03(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Born&Bred  
#71 Posted : 14 January 2011 23:55:10(UTC)
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The Drill Hall is the large building at the top left hand side of New Horwich
shallcross  
#72 Posted : 15 January 2011 00:22:35(UTC)
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RSS

You are correct I do have a copy of this

First Councillor The Drill Hall you pass as you go up New Horwich to the Cricket Ground.

WW1 Large German Field Guns, Mortars, small arms etc were brought back to England and displayed in large numbers at various locations around the country attracting large crowds, in many of these displays the regiments who captured the weapons had a plaque proudly displaying where and when it was taken,

After a bitter conflict and with so many people loosing family members I can only imagine that this was done soley as a moral boost and probably a tangible way to show that the enemy was defeated and all  hadn't been in vain. I cant say for sure if this was the reason why German Guns arrived in Whaley but after the big displays I am certain that regiments who were active in the conflict (and The Sherwood Foresters were at Ypres especialy) took some of these items on a ''Roadshow'' to their own areas. a chance for families to see the actual guns that caused so much death in the trenches.

For further info take a look at the British Pathe News website there is some excellent footage of the large displays mainly London.

As you also mentioned the Memorial Park there is great footage on there of Lady Haigs visit to Whaley when she presented new Standards to the British Legion, 1929 I think, she also planted a tree, and you can see some good quality film of her actually filling in the hole, at that time she was very well known as Earl Douglas Haig had been very popular, but now these many years on do you know which is the tree she planted? because I dont know.

Edited by user 15 January 2011 00:24:45(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Shallcross
R. Stephenson-Smythe  
#73 Posted : 15 January 2011 10:44:18(UTC)
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Hello Shallcross,
 
Good post as usual.
 
If you have been reading the thread about the Mass Trespass you will have noted that after 150 years I located The Bings Wood Well, although subjected to a certain amount of ridicule from various quarters, so locating the Lady Haig tree will be a walk in the park for me. Quite literally.
But this time I shall not be alone I am going to have 2 witnesses with me and they can have the privilege of taking the photo.
So I will make contact with Buggyite and Mr Scope and we will set off together. We may well get time to free the Bings Wood well the same day.
 
R. S-S
 
By the way Shallcross I am sure you will have a photo of Lady Haig planting the tree.
 
shallcross  
#74 Posted : 15 January 2011 12:39:29(UTC)
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Yes but it isnt the best quality.

shallcross attached the following image(s):
lady haig wb 1929 (2).jpg
Shallcross
R. Stephenson-Smythe  
#75 Posted : 18 January 2011 19:07:36(UTC)
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CllrJonG wrote:

Hi RSS,

Yet another extremely interesting photo !

I can confirm, based on my diverse munitions experience, that it is indeed a gun.

Unfortunately, that is as far as my knowledge takes me.

Where was the Drill hall by the way ?

I'd imagine that any high quality steel like this would probably have been taken and melted down for the second world war effort.

Cheers

Jon.

 

Hello Jon,
 
I am amazed Jon that for someone such as yourself who has lived in this village for nigh on 60 years has to pose the question: “Where was the Drill Hall.”
 
 
It is as Shallcross says on the way to the cricket field. In fact if you were on Bings Road and went via the ‘giddle-gaddle’ you would almost be on it.
 
I believe it was built for the friendly society ‘The Sons of Temperance’ who were abstainers from the devil drink and whose duty it was to help drink sodden wretches.
So quite possibly when passing you have subconsciously looked the other way as, no doubt, does our great friend Fedup.
 
They used to have dances and concerts there in the 60’s and the room was the biggest function room in Whaley.
Just googling a bit it seems that many of the Sons of Temperance buildings became Drill Halls.
 
I don’t want to sound like Uncle Albert but: during the war there was an anti-aircraft gun positioned at the Drill Hall and two massive search lights were situated up at Shallcross Manor.
 
Sons of Temperance was just one of many national friendly societies but we had our own local ones in Whaley: Taxal and Dale of Goyt Friendly Society and Top of Horwich Burial Society.
 
More of those two later I think.
 
R. S-S
R. Stephenson-Smythe  
#76 Posted : 18 January 2011 19:10:21(UTC)
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CllrJonG wrote:

Hi RSS,

Yet another extremely interesting photo !

I can confirm, based on my diverse munitions experience, that it is indeed a gun.

Unfortunately, that is as far as my knowledge takes me.

Where was the Drill hall by the way ?

I'd imagine that any high quality steel like this would probably have been taken and melted down for the second world war effort.

Cheers

Jon.

 

Hello Jon,
 
I am amazed Jon that for someone such as yourself who has lived in this village for nigh on 60 years has to pose the question: “Where was the Drill Hall.”
 
 
It is as Shallcross says on the way to the cricket field. In fact if you were on Bings Road and went via the ‘giddle-gaddle’ you would almost be on it.
 
I believe it was built for the friendly society ‘The Sons of Temperance’ who were abstainers from the devil drink and whose duty it was to help drink sodden wretches.
So quite possibly when passing you have subconsciously looked the other way as, no doubt, does our great friend Fedup.
 
They used to have dances and concerts there in the 60’s and the room was the biggest function room in Whaley.
Just googling a bit it seems that many of the Sons of Temperance buildings became Drill Halls.
 
I don’t want to sound like Uncle Albert but: during the war there was an anti-aircraft gun positioned at the Drill Hall and two massive search lights were situated up at Shallcross Manor.
 
Sons of Temperance was just one of many national friendly societies but we had our own local ones in Whaley: Taxal and Dale of Goyt Friendly Society and Top of Horwich Burial Society.
 
More of those two later I think.
 
R. S-S
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