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High Peak Harry  
#41 Posted : 07 December 2009 20:16:45(UTC)
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Is this it?
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Horwich Ender  
#42 Posted : 09 December 2009 18:51:32(UTC)
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Good evening R. S-S. 

I'm not too sure why High Peak Harry has posted a picture of that fountain as it would appear to bear no resemblance to the structure in your photograph showing the Whaley Bridge fountain.

I am intrigued by this subject and would be delighted to find out that the fountain originally built at the bottom of the station approach in Whaley did find it's way to Horwich End by some sinister route.

I await your further updates when, hopefully, you will be able to reveal the current location of the infamous fountain.

R. Stephenson-Smythe  
#43 Posted : 10 December 2009 18:31:20(UTC)
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Hello HE,
 
The Whaley Fountain, as I have already indicated, is generally accepted to have found its way into a private garden somewhere between the Trinity Church and The Iron Church.
My Grandma told me a bit more information about it but I am hesitant to put that on here.
 
I am going to do some research into the ‘Horwich End Fountain’ over the next few days but having asked 2 very knowledgeable local historians over the past few weeks about this fountain I have been met only with blank looks.
 
I have looked through all the photos I have of Horwich End and can not find any with a fountain on. Neither can I find any documentary evidence which is surprising considering it would have been a focal point of Horwich End if it were ever there.
 
We shall see what else we can do for you HE.
 
R. S-S
 
HE,
 
I wrote this earlier in the day and this evening I have looked through some more archives and I think I may have been hasty and indeed it seems as though there may well have been a fountain at Horwich End.
 
I thought the fountain had somehow been superimposed on to an old photo (the photo does look rather strange with 3 images at one point next to the fountain) but I may now have to apologise to Curious. The photo now would appear to be 100% genuine.
 
I haven’t the time just now but by Saturday I will let you know what I have found out. It all appears very interesting. Please bear with me.
 
R. S-S
Horwich Ender  
#44 Posted : 10 December 2009 19:44:54(UTC)
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Good Evening R. S-S

I most certainly will bear with you and look forward to hearing the conclusion of your fountain investigations in due course.

I was very interested in your reference to The Ragged Trousered Philanthropist by Robert Tressell as this is a novel I know very well. As well as the workers, the main cast comprises hypocritical Christians, exploitative capitalists and corrupt councillors.

You indicate that the Whaley Bridge Fountain found it's way from Market Street to a private garden in one of the houses between Trinity Church Hall and the School Garage.

Would I be correct in saying that at least two of our local councillors live in that relatively small area?


 

Fedup  
#45 Posted : 10 December 2009 19:51:44(UTC)
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Be careful, Horwich Ender, be very, very careful!

Edited by user 10 December 2009 19:52:51(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

R. Stephenson-Smythe  
#46 Posted : 11 December 2009 09:01:41(UTC)
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Good Morning HE,
 
I have only a few minutes before I have to leave to try to scratch a living so the results of my enquiries will have to wait just a little longer.
 
I am very pleased you are familiar with Robert Tressell’s masterpiece and because of this and what you said in the final lines of your post I perceive that you are thinking along the same lines as myself.
 
There are, however, 3 not 2 Councillors living in that area: Cllr Mr G, Cllr Mrs L and Cllr Mrs B. I am not aware of any of their ages but as the Whaley Fountain went ‘missing’ about a century ago I would say it is almost certain, well almost, to assume that none of them was around at the time.
 
More later.
 
R. S-S
CllrJonG  
#47 Posted : 11 December 2009 10:58:26(UTC)
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Hi,

A long time ago I read the detail about the fountain being last seen in a back garden on Buxton Road on the park side.  Unfortunately it's not in my back garden, and I havn't seen it anywhere in the immediate surroundings. It's a real shame that it's been lost.

I'm following this thread with great interest.

Cheers

Jon.

Jon Goldfinch - Forum Administrator and Town Councillor
Whaley Bridge Town Council - Fernilee Ward

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R. Stephenson-Smythe  
#48 Posted : 11 December 2009 12:13:17(UTC)
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Jon,
 
That just about takes the biscuit: “Unfortunately it’s not in my back garden”.
Well if it was and it was not hidden by your compost bin I feel sure it would have been given both barrels from your 12 bore shotgun.
 
This is an ornamental fountain adorned with fish consuming pelicans. How could you possibly tolerate such a thing in your garden given your liking for snaring poor defenceless fish with a rusty old hook whilst at the same time wanting to deny Peter the Pelican and Colin the Cormorant their right by nature to their lunch?
 
A disgraceful example from a Councillor if you ask me. I don’t know whatever Fedup will think of your posting.
 
R. S-S
R. Stephenson-Smythe  
#49 Posted : 11 December 2009 18:17:09(UTC)
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Firstly my sincere apologies to you Mr Curious; I must admit I was suspicious of your photo that started this topic.
 
The Whaley Fountain is mentioned in books on Whaley, it was talked about on the old forum, we have seen pictures of it and it is accepted as a matter of fact.
Not once have I heard anyone talk of the Horwich End Fountain; as far as I know there is no mention of it in any local books. Two local historians laughed at me when I told them of The Fountain. I myself even suggested we may have found the source of The Peckham Spring.
But we were all wrong and Mr Curious was 100% correct after all.
 
If you have anything else to submit Mr Curious please do so without fear of being doubted or questioned.
 
I have checked some old archive records and the story of the two fountains is quite fascinating but I do not want to overdo it in one post so I’ll sign off for now and come back later with the full story and a couple of photos as back up.
 
R. S-S
CllrJonG  
#50 Posted : 11 December 2009 18:33:23(UTC)
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Unfortunately I dont have a 12 bore shotgun either.

Colin the Cormorants lunch should be found in salty waters, where I have no problem with him eating until he is too fat to fly or float . Peter the Pelican, not an obviously indigenous bird,  and here on holiday, might consider complaining less about his right to other peoples fish, and could concentrate more on aiding your good self in the search for the watery statues of his forefathers ! Should he decide to concentrate more on that task he has my complete support, and I could probably turn a blind eye to the odd snaffling of our scaley friends.

 

I look forward to the photos.

Cheers

Jon.

 

Jon Goldfinch - Forum Administrator and Town Councillor
Whaley Bridge Town Council - Fernilee Ward

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R. Stephenson-Smythe  
#51 Posted : 11 December 2009 19:12:03(UTC)
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The Twin Fountains in The Twin Cities:
 
As this is going to be a long posting I am going to split it into 2 or 3 minor ones for easier reading.
 
Firstly we shall deal with the Whaley Fountain which most people know about already then we shall come to the recently discovered Horwich End Fountain:
 
Whaley Fountain:
 
Around 1902 Whaley Council had a reservoir built at Diglee, Furness Vale. It was a cement lined structure and held 247,000 gallons of water. This was filled by springs and water from Stoneheads Reservoir. The lands were obtained from Colonel Cotton Jodrell, Lord of the Manor. The works in total were estimated to cost £7,000. (Incidentally the reservoir at Diglee was filled in a few years ago and was recently sold at auction on behalf of United Utilities for £17,000)
A 7 inch main was laid from this new reservoir to supply Whaley Bridge.
 
To celebrate the new water supply a fountain was commissioned and was positioned below the Station Approach.
The local dignitaries all arrived for the formal opening of the fountain (the switch on); Mr Mellor, Vice Chairman to the Council informed the gathering that Mr G R Brady JP had been selected to effect the turn on. The fountain was decorated with greenhouse plants, flowers and shrubs.
There was a large attendance at the opening, and photographs were taken by Mr Jackson and Mr Exley from the upper window of Mrs M. Bennett's refreshment rooms.
 
The mood was also very sombre as news had just arrived that the King was in poor health. The gathering prayed that God would save the King and comfort his consort in her sad trouble.   
 
The good Councillor said: "They ought to be grateful to Col. Cotton-Jodrell for the price he was letting them have the water at. They had been to Diglee and seen what the water was there, and had to pay £25 per annum to Col. Jodrell for it, and he could tell them that if they paid 1d. per thousand gallons the price in rental would amount to between £90 and £100 a year. Their thanks were due to Col. Cotton-Jodrell for the very liberal manner in which he had treated them".
 
Mr Brady then turned the water on at the fountain, the bowl of which was artistically supported by birds, and five spray jets were released. Mr J. Carter led the singing, and there was much applause at the conclusion.
 
Refreshments were served at The Mechanics where the group were joined by the dignitaries from Horwich End, who had opened their fountain at the same time, for photographs.
 
R. S-S
 
Whaley Fountain:
 
 
 
 
CllrJonG  
#52 Posted : 12 December 2009 00:13:25(UTC)
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Simply fantastic R.S.S

Thank goodness there are people like yourself  who are able to uncover the story around the photographs which would otherwise remain untold, and thankyou to all those who have contributed and continue to contribute the photographs that  make it all possible.

Cheers

Jon.

 

Jon Goldfinch - Forum Administrator and Town Councillor
Whaley Bridge Town Council - Fernilee Ward

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R. Stephenson-Smythe  
#53 Posted : 12 December 2009 08:13:06(UTC)
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Horwich End Fountain.
 
The source of the water supply to Horwich End and Fernilee was from wells sunk upon lands purchased from Miss M.A. L. Grimshaw and Mrs A.G. Preston, and the reservoir, which held about 1,250,000 gallons, was constructed at Lea Head upon land purchased from Colonel Cotton Jodrell.
The reservoir was not completed on time but water supplies were already to be had directly from the springs.
The population to be supplied was 1680.
 
The dignitaries met at the Mechanics for refreshments after which the party were driven in brakes to Overhill Farm on the Errwood estate, where at Toll Bar Clough Mr Sterling explained the works in connection with the Fernilee and Horwich End scheme.There were deep wells sunk, and the water percolated through the strata, but never formed itself into a stream until they had sunk these wells.    The water came in every direction; 50,000 gallons in 24 hours.    There was no chance of contamination, and it was led clean away to their reservoir 1½ miles distant. They stored the water 40 feet below the level of these wells. The second well was then visited, and, next, the reservoir that is in progress of formation.
 
Upon arrival at Horwich End Doctor Nall called upon Col. Hall to declare the works open. At the rear of the fountain, were the words "Long live our noble King," in white lettering on a red ground.    Mr Huntington superintended the decoration of the fountain, which was greatly admired.
There was a large concourse of people assembled there, and Col. Hall said it was a very great honour to be asked to turn on the water there, an event which would, he thought, prove to be of great interest and importance to the neighbourhood. 
 
He referred to the feelings of deep sympathy with the King in his illness, the knowledge of which latter was a wet blanket upon their proceedings, though it did not interfere with that function, which had been long since arranged to take place.
Col. Hall then turned the water on amid cheers, and a verse of the National Anthem was sung.
  
The party then proceeded to the Mechanics' Institute, outside which building Mr Jackson, of Whaley Bridge, photographed the gentlemen of the authorities interested. (see photo below)
 

 

Horwich End Fountain.

 

 

 

26 June 1902.
Councillors, contractors and prominent residents outside the Mechanics’ Institute after the ceremony of opening the Waterworks:
 

R. S-S

Gnatalee  
#54 Posted : 12 December 2009 08:30:45(UTC)
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Absolutely fantastic photos and story R.S-S, thank you ! 

Gnats

Edited by user 12 December 2009 08:31:45(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Horwich Ender  
#55 Posted : 12 December 2009 12:52:03(UTC)
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Good Afternoon R. S-S

Absolutely Brilliant.

So, Horwich End did have it's own fountain after all. This has been a fantastic thread and our thanks must go to yourself for undertaking the extensive research and sharing your findings with us. Curious should also be thanked for bringing this subject to the attention of the forum in the first place.

The question that appears to remain unanswered is – what happened to both fountains?

I am also pleased to hear that it is extremely unlikely that any of our current councillors have been involved with either fountain. I note Cllr. Jon Goldfinch has provided a personal denial of any involvement but I am unclear of who the other councillors you refer to are. I assume Cllr Mr G is Jon Goldfinch and Cllr Mrs L is Linda Leather but who is Cllr Mrs B? I know Cllr Brunt lives nearby on Buxton Road but I believe she lives to the south of the Trinity Church and not in the area between the Trinity and School Garage which is where you feel one fountain ended up. I think there has been a recent addition to the Town Council and perhaps this is the person to whom you are referring. I have checked the list of Town Councillors on the Whaley Bridge web site but it does not appear to have been updated. Please could you tell us who the mystery councillor is.

G. Jackson  
#56 Posted : 12 December 2009 13:02:52(UTC)
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Brilliant, Mr. R S-S. has done it again. From where does he get all his photos and information. I would like it to be known that the photographer Mr. Jackson was not me. It couldn't have been as my camera was not working in 1902 as I think it was at Fred Beard's shop for it's bi-annual cleaning. Well done again R.S-S.

R. Stephenson-Smythe  
#57 Posted : 12 December 2009 13:37:46(UTC)
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I apologise for perhaps misleading you HE,
 
The 3 Councillors to whom you referred are indeed the ones that I was bringing in as possible recipients of the Whaley Fountain.
 
However, I have done some research into these 3 Councillors and, unbelievable as it may seem, none are quite old enough to have had any involvement with the ‘disappearance’ of our fountain.
 
So if you were considering dialling 999 you might want to restrain yourself otherwise you may find yourself up on a charge of wasting police time.
 
Once again HE sorry for the misleading text, and apologies to all 3 of our very upstanding Horwich End Councillors.
 
R. S-S
 
By the way HE didn’t you think the speech given by the Councillor at the opening of the Whaley Fountain could have come directly from the pages of The Ragged Trousered Philanthropist or even the pen of the great Robert Tressell himself?
 
R. S-S
Curious  
#58 Posted : 12 December 2009 21:16:29(UTC)
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Well, I did cause a bit of a stir with this one didn’t I?  

 
I just thought I was putting an old photo of Horwich End Bank on the Forum; I honestly hadn’t spotted the fountain, never mind somehow added it – apology graciously accepted.  Anyway, all’s well that ends well, and we have learned some more fabulous local history from R.S-S.  I’ll put the Horwich End Fountain photo on the Photo Library and also start another discussion topic with photo of a 1940ish Methodist Panto/Play – please have a look and see if you can put names to any of the budding actors and indeed name the Performance.
 
I would be more than willing to open my bag of recently acquired old photos to interested parties, especially Gnatalee and of course, R.S-S.  I don’t know how I go about this but I’m sure they can find a way to get in touch with me (there were enough clues in my previous post detailing discussions with my mum). Perhaps we could arrange a coffee and mince pie in Footsteps over the Christmas period where I can reveal the contents of my bag.  I have a lot of photos of Victorian Whaley/Kettleshulme folk and I’m sure they must still have living relatives who can point us in the right direction as to who they are.
 
 
Curious (Mrs)
CllrJonG  
#59 Posted : 13 December 2009 03:37:06(UTC)
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Hi Horwich Ender,

Whaleys new councillor is Mrs Susanne Lomas.  Susanne lives in Furness Vale. She is not the Councillor B that R.S.S referred to.

The councillor B being referred to is in fact Councillor Jean Horsfall.  Although she married recently she has always publically maintained her surname as Horsfall, and is known by everybody by that name. The Council website reflects this and you will see her there as Councillor Horsfall.  As you point out Councillor H doesnt live in the area under suspicion by R.S.S and is therfore not guilty m'Lord.

Now that we have some photos of the fountains - Curious's one is particularly detailed, I might put together a little poster and put it through the doors of the houses involved. There aren't many houses, but it would be quite  interesting to see if anyone can throw any light on it.

I would have loved to have found it somewhere in my garden, buried in the bank by the river, or perhaps even uncovered it while gardening, but sadly thats not the case. In the Pierces book of old picture postcards, it states on plate21 that 'It was in a private garden along this road(Buxton Road) that the villages water fountain was last seen. The fountain, which featured three pelicans, and has since disappeared without trace, stood from 1856, in the centre of the village, prior to its illicit removal."
R.S.S is more specific about the last known location of the fountain, narrowing it down to a smaller area, and he suggests he may know some further detail about it.
There is another point of interest in that the Pierces state that the fountain was present in 1856, wheras R.S.S suggests it was opened in 1902. It is possible that the Pierces account is incorrect, or perhaps that there was ANOTHER fountain which predated the two we now know about. This seems unlikely though.

It would be quite nice to reerect a fountain in Whaley Bridge as a feature, but  it could become a prime target for the idiots. Not impossible though.

Cheers
Jon
.
 

Jon Goldfinch - Forum Administrator and Town Councillor
Whaley Bridge Town Council - Fernilee Ward

cllr.jong.wbtc@googlemail.com
R. Stephenson-Smythe  
#60 Posted : 13 December 2009 09:48:02(UTC)
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Good morning to you Jon,
 
I see you were up late as usual last night typing your contribution at 3.37 AM. Some people, myself included, have never seen you during daylight hours and is it true there are no mirrors at your house?
 
Well all this Cllr B Cllr H malarkey is a bit of a mystery to me to be honest. I have read your post over and over Jon and I think you are saying Cllr B is in actual fact Cllr H (she’s not claiming 2 allowances is she?).
Politics is a very strange world indeed and having 2 names mustn’t make it any easier. So much simpler for Tony Blair and Bill Clinton when they book into a hotel with their nearest and dearest I would have thought.
So I am now going to try my very best to drop the Cllr B Cllr H monikers and simply address the good Cllr as Cllr Jean. That’s if I can remember. So my apologies to you Cllr Jean. There that sounds so much better. Incidentally my finger of suspicion with regards to the whereabouts of the fountain never pointed in your direction Cllr B. Damn I’ve done it again. Sorry.
 
Jon I have read Pierce’s book of postcards and, interesting as it is, there may be a few mistakes in it. I don’t know where they got the fountain date of 1856 from but it would be nice to ask them.
Does anyone know who they are or how they can be contacted?
Where did the 1856 fountain get its water from??
 
It would also be very nice to have a new fountain in the village but you can’t have one in Whaley and none in Horwich End and all sales of Fairy Liquid and washing powder would have to be banned.
 
I have one small final post with regards to the fountains but I’m on Christmas decoration duty this morning so it will have to wait.
 
One other apology before I start decorating and that is to Mrs Curious. This is one of gender and not name although I do think Curious is a curious name. Nevertheless Mrs Curious you will find Cllr Jon Goldfinch’s name (that’s so much easier) on the WBTC website and if you contact him he will give you my email address so that we can make contact. I will treat everything in absolute confidence.
 
 
R. S-S
 
 
 
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