The photograph of Whaley Bridge Incline:

Whaley Bridge Incline on the Cromford & High Peak Railway, looking down towards the canal basin. Although undated, this picture must have been taken around 1950/2, as for one thing, the roof of the Co-op garages (built around 1949/50) can be seen on the LH side, and  the haulage chains can still be seen on the pulleys on the incline. These were removed fairly quickly after closure of the line in 1952.

The photograph of the line between Whaley Incline & Shallcross Goods:

The C&HP line, looking from Chapel Road bridge back towards Whaley Bridge. Probably taken mid 1950s. The "gallows"-looking feature is a loading gauge, to ensure that the loco and wagons will pass under Chapel Road bridge. This part of the line closed in January 1965.

Here is the picture looking towards Shallcross sidings again, this time without my red text. It was taken in March 1956, probably at the same time as the one looking towards Whaley. This time the photographer has crossed Chapel Road, and is looking in the opposite direction. The route of Shallcross Incline can be made out in the distance, in line with the two staright sidings. This incline was closed in June 1892.

buggyite attached the following image(s):

well, HERE is the photo referred to!

buggyite attached the following image(s):

Right Buggyite I have added these photos onto the Album part of the website.

I would be obliged if you, and other people "in the know", could have a look and either email me or put a post on here if anything is not quite right.

That's 92 photographs in the album now

Norm

Tis done

Norm

R E KNOWLES' SIDING

FURNESS VALE

I was going to write a short piece on "Neddy" Knowles' siding at Furness Vale, and in preparation for this, I scanned a couple of relevant maps to help people place it. The trouble is, they don't actually agree, so this becomes more of a cry for help from those whose knowledge of Furness far exceeds mine.  The two attached maps are firstly an OS map of 1897, and the second is from an official LNWR (London & North Western Railway Co.) source, with a 1919 date stamp on it, but refers to a signed agreement with R E Knowles of 1908.  I have dotted the siding in red, and the connection(s) to the main line in blue. Quite apart from the fact that the LNWR map shows connections to both the Up and the Down line, this map clearly shows the Up line connection as adjacent to the little bridge No. 32, whereas the OS map shows the siding quite a lot further along towards Newtown. The LNWR map gives a lot of detailed distances - yards, chains etc, so would appear to have been compiled from something definitive, but this means my previously unshakeable faith in the Ordnance Survey has been somewhat upset.

I expect that the tramway referred to, but only actually shown where it's adjacent to the siding is the one that came from Knowles' brickworks down to the canal originally, but then had a spur put in, to connect with the railway when it arrived in 1857.  If I remember correctly, my fellow thug R S-S mentioned where this went under the A6 near Furness chippy in a post some time ago.

Anyway, any help or photographs to help clear up this minor mystery would be much appreciated!

buggyite attached the following image(s):

I'm glad I've spurred your interest a little, Parabuild.

The photograph below shows the gates into and out of the private siding quite well. This was taken in 1960. You can just about make out the crossover under the loco. Beyond the furthermost gate there is a hut placed where the line went into the siding, but all the scrub where the tramway would have been suggests there'd been no railway/tramway interchanges for a good few years already.

As far as researching the history of the Knowles's "empire", I think that the Hewitt family have had a long association with the company, so you might be able to find quite a bit out, if you can find one or other members of that family.

buggyite attached the following image(s):

Thanks for that photo, Shallcross.

Doesn't really help with the Knowles' siding mystery, but its got me puzzling just where it is.

At first, I thought that the brdge under the railway would be the one on Ladypit road, leading up to where the Gowhole (or Jowhole) up sidings were. But the background behind the railway line doesn't fit. Where for example is the building we always referred to as the "sausage factory" - the one at the side of where Ladypit road takes a sharp right, and where then is that barn on the extreme right of the photograph?

The barn looks suspiciously like the one at Greenhead, so where are the cottages in the foreground?  I thought at first Waterside, but then they are on the "wrong side" of Greenhead!

Its another one for the great research team we have on here, I think.

I've reduced it so it will fit "inline" below and removed some obvious dust marks

Edited by user 31 August 2010 21:42:43(UTC)  | Reason: added more info

buggyite attached the following image(s):

I would love to see the reports of the tests of the "Alpine" system.  Everything I have read so far points to these tests taking place on the Bunsall Incline, rather than the Whaley Bridge one, so if you could settle this matter more convincingly than you managed to persuade me about the fate of Errwood Hall's gateposts, that would be excellent!

The Alpine system was invented by John Barraclough Fell, and is still used on the Snaefell Mountain Railway on the Isle of Man, and was previously used on several railways across the Alps. Unlike other systems, which used a rack between the rails, Fell's method used an extra rail, laid sideways on supports between the normal running rails. Wheels, either side of this centre rail "gripped" it, using very strong springs to ensure a firm contact.

I have this referring to the tests:

"The first engine . . . . was intended to test the system for application to the Mount Cenis Railway (In Italy). It was tried on a track 800 yards long, of 3' 7½" gauge' laid on a gradient of 1 in 13½ on the High Peak Railway"

Now Bunsall Incline was 455 yards at 1 in 7, and then 660 yards at 1 in 7½, which doesn't really fit in with the description above.

Shallcross Incline was 817 yards at 1 in 10½, so the length suggests the tests might have been here, though the gradient is different.

Whaley Incline is only 180 yards long, but it is 1 in 13½, so the gradient matches, but it's hard to imagine where JB Fell found the extra 620 yards of uphill, if this was the location!

Ahh, another bit...

"180 yards of Fell's test track was straight, with a gradient of 1 in 13, 150 yards with a gradient of 1 in 12, with curves of 2½ chains radius"  Maybe it went up Bings.

And finally, while looking all this up, I perhaps discovered how our friend G.Jackson knows so much about horses: The following is an excerpt from a description of a trip from Cromford to Whaley Bridge on the "fly" train - the fast(ish) through train that conveyed passengers.

"Going forward, the fly was taken in charge by George Jackson who did shunting here (Shallcross Yard) with a horse, and he took us forward to Whaley Bridge Good Shed."