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For those who are interested I came across this site, which contains details of the individuals sadly named on the Whaley war memorial, very sobering reading but obviously of local interest:
WHALEY BRIDGE WAR MEMORIAL
Edited by user 31 March 2009 21:34:15(UTC)
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That's very moving. What a stupid lot we humans are.
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We are stupid, but the sad thing is we do not learn from our mistakes, and it goes on and on.
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Interesting that Sidney Hare and Oswald Holt were both killed at the original Battle of the Somme on July 1st 1916. Does anyone have any details of which Pals Battalion, the Whaley lads would have joined?
Last summer I visited the Menin Gate Memorial in Ypres.. Every night at 8pm they read out the name of one of those who died and play the Last Post. I defy anyone to visit and not be moved to tears.
Four of my Uncles joined the Marple Pals batallion, but only one returned. There's a fascinating book that details the activities of the Marple Lads and outlines where they fought and fell.
Is there a Whaley equivalent?
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That is so sad. God bless all those brave men and women.
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I have been doing the family history for many years now and often asked my dad if the "W H Jones" on the Whaley Bridge War Memorial was a member of his family - the answer was always "No". Last November I discovered it was actually his uncle who died before Dad was born. William joined the Sherwood Forresters in August 1917 at the age of 18 and was transferred to the Durham Light Infantry. On 7 April 1918 he landed in France at Etaples and died on the 27 April 1918 from wounds received. His grave is in the cemetery at Crouy-sur-Somme, France. I found all the details on the Commonwealth Wargraves Commission excellent website and even have a picture of the cemetery where he is buried. It certainly brings it home to you how awful such times were, and how sad that none of the family have ever been to the cemetery - something which I hope to rectify in the near future.
Another name on the War Memorial is Percy Jones who died in the 2nd world war - he was the son of Percy Jones (and wife Lottie) who was brother to W H Jones named above.
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Just to echo what our leader said about “we never learn” and fortunately this is not about local history but just an example of what I think the King was trying to convey:
On 29th November 1864 the American cavalry descended on the village of Sand Creek and massacred almost the entire population of Cheyenne Indians. Most were women, children and old men. There were many incidents of scalping, rape and mutilations. Hundreds were killed. No one was brought to justice over the incident.
On 16th March, 1968 the American patrol Charlie Company entered the Vietnamese village of My Lai and once again, 104 years later, almost the entire population of the village again consisting of mainly women, children and old men was massacred. There were, once again, many incidents of scalping, rape and mutilations. Hundreds were killed. No one was brought to justice except for a lieutenant Calley who was charged with 109 murders and served four and a half months under a type of house arrest. Some justice!
Last month was the 41st anniversary of the My Lai massacre.
I wonder if in the future we shall learn of events in Iraq. I hope not and I hope this post does not upset or offend anybody. As I say I offer it here as an example of the horrors of war.
Incidentally can I endorse Neil Shaw’s description of the 8.00PM service at the Menin Gate in Ypres? It is unbelievably moving and when I first went there many years ago there were just the two policemen who stop the traffic, the two fire brigade members who sound the ‘last post’ and a handful of onlookers paying their respects. I went a couple of years ago and there were hundreds of people there. I spoke to the fire brigade officer and he told me that rather than the service getting smaller as the war becomes a more distant memory it increases all the time. I shall be there next month to once again pay my respects and I will be visiting the graves of one or two of the soldiers named on our very own War Memorial in the Park. I have sent photos of the unveiling of our War Memorial to Cllr JonG to post on here so that readers from afar can see what we are talking about.
This is an unusually sombre post from me but I will be back with a much lighter contribution shortly.
R. S-S
Jake wrote:We are stupid, but the sad thing is we do not learn from our mistakes, and it goes on and on.
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Hi,
As RSS indicated, he sent me two pictures of the memorial, which are attached. One is taken just before unveiling, and the other just after. The sombre nature of the occasion can be clearly seen by the expressions on peoples faces both before and after unveiling. Many of those present would have undoubtably lost family and friends.
According to my copy of 'Whaley Bridge in old picture postcards, by Robert and Pamela Pierce (see pg45), " the unveiling of the £600 Memorial and dedication by Reverend G.F Evans took place on 7th May 1921. This granite obelisk, topped by an Ionic cross, which rises from a flight of Portland-stone steps, is approximately 20 feet high. Upon it are the names of 108 men who lost their lives in the First World War - out of a population of only 4000. The Park in which the Monument stands was donated by Colonel Ramsden-Jodrell in 1921 in memory of the fallen."
The Reverend Evans is presumably the gentleman in the centre of the picture pulling the string to unveil the memorial. Next to him are several army officers, and I wonder if one of these is from the Jodrell family. Lt-Col Henry Ramsden-Jodrell was born in 1871, so would have been 50 at this time. If he was present, then it is possible he is the older officer whose face is partly obscured by the monument.
When the memorial was unveiled in 1921, there were 105 names on the memorial, engraved on two plaques either side of the memorial. The name of Ernest Smith, Alan Little and George W Smith were added subsequently - the latter two to the plaque visible in RSS's photo.
What is particularly sad is that many of the children we can see present at the unveiling ceremony in 1921 would, just 18 years later , be themselves be fighting and losing their lives in the Second World War.
Some time after the Second World War, the names of the 39 men and women from Whaley Bridge who lost their lives in that conflict were engraved on a plaque which was placed on the rear of the memorial.
Jon Goldfinch. |
Jon Goldfinch - Forum Administrator and Town Councillor
Whaley Bridge Town Council - Fernilee Ward
cllr.jong.wbtc@googlemail.com |
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I have attached a picture of the Whaley Bridge War Memorial which shows all the names on the plaques.
The name of John O Wade is a later addition on the 1939-45 plaque, bringing the number of lives lost to 39. This name is not indicated in the previous link to the 'Roll-of-Honour', and perhaps should be brought to their attention.
The monument is currently in a very dirty condition. However, High Peak Borough Councils £478,000 Heritage Lottery Fund bid for the park ( helped by the Friends of Whaley Bridge Memorial Park group) has successfully passed the first stage, and HPBC have been granted £24,300 which will be used to further develop their bid. Central to the bid are plans to restore the war memorial and the area around it. We can therefore expect to see the memorial professionally restored next year if the second stage of the bid is successful.
Jon Goldfinch CllrJonG attached the following image(s): |
Jon Goldfinch - Forum Administrator and Town Councillor
Whaley Bridge Town Council - Fernilee Ward
cllr.jong.wbtc@googlemail.com |
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Hi,
Here's a better picture of the names which you may be able to zoom into better. |
Jon Goldfinch - Forum Administrator and Town Councillor
Whaley Bridge Town Council - Fernilee Ward
cllr.jong.wbtc@googlemail.com |
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I know this is resurrecting a topic that most people thought was long gone but it’s something that we should not forget and it does no harm to be reminded of certain things. The majority on Whaley war Memorial were Sherwood Foresters.
In the Great War approximately 140,000 Sherwood Foresters went into action 11,409 did not return.
9 won Victoria Crosses and 8 were ‘Shot at Dawn’. Strange how things tend to even themselves out.
The massive Empire Hotel was built in Buxton in 1901 and was probably a failure from the start due to its size but was used to house The Sherwood Foresters reservists. It later became occupied by squatters and the army returned to ‘evict’ them and it was boarded up, surrounded with barbed wire and eventually demolished in 1964. Only the gate posts remain today.
(See picture below)
Mr Neil Shaw mentioned the moving experience of standing under The Menin Gate at Ypres and he is indeed correct. I have stood there many times at 8.00pm and listened to the Last Post sounded by the local fire brigade officers. Many people are in tears. I went there a long time ago and there were perhaps 2 dozen people in attendance; this year when I went it was more like 2,000 people.
When I first went to Tyne Cott, the largest of the cemeteries, I was alone. This year there is a visitor centre and a coach and car park and there were hundreds of people wandering around.
(See pictures below of the Menin Gate and the gathering crowd; about an hour before the Firemen went into action)
If you are unable to visit these moving places you may have enough time to nip off down to Crich near Matclock and look at the monument to the Sherwood Foresters (see picture below)
It’s not The Menin Gate by any stretch of the imagination but worth a half day of your time.
R. S-S
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As military matters are to the fore at the moment I thought I would highlight a point. Everyone in the media likes to raise the temperature by stoking up public opinion on whether or not we should be in a particular country and how dreadful it is that young men and women are dying. People join the Services to do the bidding of the Generals and they are told what to do by the politicians (N.B. use of capitals). The media say how dreadful it is that another three servicemen have died and what can be done about it. Now, a little mathematic equation. If they had reported three deaths at a time for everyone who died at the Battle of the Somme it would have taken 100 years to report those deaths. A little perspective is needed I think. War is never a pretty thing but it is sometimes necessary to stop others who would seek to change our way of life. I speak as someone who served in the Falklands (just after, admittedly) and with the UN in Cyprus, keeping warring factions apart, so I think I am partially qualified to give my two pennorth. I trust that people will be buying their poppies to show respect AND remembrance for those who have fallen and those yet to fall.
Good evening to you all.
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Well said HPH.
Let's all hope that sanity overcomes prejudice and hatred throughout the world. Edited by user 14 October 2009 19:43:27(UTC)
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Hello High Peak Harry
I have worked with a lady whose son (who I remember as an 8-10 year old) has joined the forces (as a marine, if I recall correctly) and she said it was all he ever wanted to do. I am sure she is very worried , especially when he was posted to Iraq/Ahganistan (not sure which now) BUT wherever he serves I am sure she believes it is what he wants, what he was trained for but hopes the Government are doing the very best for him with equipment and intelligence.
I do believe our soldiers are the best, they join the forces because they want to (and not because they are conscripted) and believe they can make a difference. I hope the Government make sure they are properly equipped and supported to enable them to carry out their duties.
Whether or not we agree with the Afghanistan or Iraq situation, we should be supporting our boys. They are carrying out the orders of our Government (who WE voted in, and we will have the chance to agree/disagree with next year :-) )
Gnats
Edited by user 14 October 2009 21:46:18(UTC)
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Hear, hear Edited by user 15 October 2009 22:02:05(UTC)
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Hello to one and all,
I have just opened an old box of local documents that I have had for some time; in fact I had forgotten that I even had the box.
It contains lots of information some of which is suitable to put on this forum and I will do so in due course.
I have revived this old thread as I think the first article should go on here.
I apologise for the quality but it is obviously very old and the paper has faded quite a bit.
I am hoping that Well Known Norm will capture and copy these images for me as usual.
I do not know the date or even the newspaper that is cut from but I am sure that there will be people in the village that are familiar with or even related to Whaley’s first soldier, Private George Townsend.
R. S-S Edited by user 07 March 2012 09:25:24(UTC)
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And to add to the above this is taken from the Roll of Honour from the Whaley Bridge war Memorial:
Townsend, George.
Private 14185.
1st Batallion Sherwood Foresters (Nottinghamshire and Derbyshire Regiment)
Killed in action 9th May, 1915.
Aged 21. Born Chapel-en-le-Frith, enlisted Derby, resident Stockport.
Son of William Townsend of 5 Macclesfield Road, horwich End, Whaley Bridge, Stockport.
No Known grave.
Commemorated on Ploegsteert Memorial, Comines Warneton, Harnaut, Belgium.
Panel 7.
So George’s birthday was sadly his last.
Strangely enough I have been to that Memorial. It’s a pity I didn’t find this article before I went.
The soldiers always referred to Ploegsteert as Plug Street just as they called Ypres Wipers.
R. S-S
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Photo from two posts back. Altered contrast, hope it's OK. Norm attached the following image(s):
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Hello everybody,
Just following on from the newspaper cutting that reported the first Whaley Bridge soldier, Private George Townsend, and who was killed shortly after the report I now have one from WW11; and it is about Whaley Bridge’s first fatality.
Gunner Alec Hill was killed by enemy gunfire but made it back to England where he died of his wounds.
Sadly and very tragically he didn’t even make it back in time for his own funeral. How doubly upsetting it must have been for his friends and family.
I’m sure that there will be people out there who still remember Alec.
R. S-S Edited by user 08 March 2012 17:44:15(UTC)
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Photo from previous post. Norm attached the following image(s):
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